(As Ami is on active service, sections of the interview have had to be redacted)
Duration: 1 hours 52 minutes 4 Seconds
Simon: This is Simon Perry for the Submariners Stories Oral History Project. And I’m in Gosport today the 24th of February 2023 and I’m with …
Ami: Lieutenant Ami Burns.
Simon: Ami. Thank you very much for having us here today, and we would normally start this with talking about where were you born and what was the name of your mum and dad?
Ami: Ok. So, I was born Ami Ulston, so I’m not Ami Burns. I was born in Preston in Lancashire [REDACTED]. The intention was to go to College, but I think I’d had enough of studying. I’m very much hands-on, I like to be out doing things rather than sitting in a classroom, or just learning in a different way. I initially signed up for 5 ‘A’ Levels and I just thought this is just not really for me, even though on paper it absolutely … you know my grades are good enough to do that, so I got a job in Preston and just sort of scratching around to see what I could do, and I like playing with bikes and just things. I like playing, taking things apart and I remember seeing an advert for the Navy when I was walking through Town so I popped into the Careers Office because travel away from Preston was a real sort of attraction and the Navy seemed to offer a bit of both so it was like you know, ‘would you like to come and be an Engineer and also at the same we can take you around the world’ so to me it was a no-brainer. So, I joined the Navy at 18 and a few months, April 2003, as a Marine Engineering Artificer Apprentice, which is something that no longer exists.
[REDACTED]
Ami: So, my mum, initially she worked in Hospitality and that’s how she ended up meeting my dad and subsequently my stepdad at the time. My dad was a Chef so that’s how my mum and dad met originally and then when she split up with my dad, and she worked in a Hotel, just on the outskirts of Preston. That’s where she met my stepdad and he was the Manager of the Hotel at the time so nothing engineering at all, [REDACTED].
Simon: And the sort of fascination of the engineering side came from you dismantling bikes or …
Ami: Anything and everything (laughs). Honestly, everything. I’ve had infinite numbers of electric shocks trying to fix lamps that I forgot to unplug and you know hair dryers and you know it all starts really early on with … I think my computer, a big desktop computer, you know, anything. Bikes was probably the first sort of … you know when your chain comes off you bike, rather than going and asking somebody to help me, I was like well how do I get this back on without asking somebody to help me and that’s probably a personality trait that runs through life, is I lie to get things done myself, and it’s learning about those things and evolving and then my stepdad was pretty good with hands on bits and pieces so it’s good.
Simon: So then … so you are signed up for the Navy. How long did you sign on for?
5 minutes 25 seconds
Ami: When you sign on initially, they say, “Well you sign on for 22 years”
Simon: Oh really!
Ami: Yes, it doesn’t mean that you have to stay for 22 years. That’s the contract that the Navy offer you. The Artificer Apprenticeship which was … it’s a fairly accelerated scheme of the time, meant that you had to do a minimum of 4 years return of service after you finished your basic Artificer Training, so Artificer Training took about maybe 3 ½ years I think from when I joined, so that would have taken me up to around about early 2007, and then you had to do 4 years after that because the principle was that you were only on the job training on ships or submarines for those that were able to at the time, but you received a Foundation Degree in Marine Engineering Systems, so the Navy are investing in you and therefore you are required to return service. I think it was about 7 years all in, and then you have the opportunity to leave but I love the Navy (laughs). I’ll be surprised if I ever leave until they kick me out I think.
Simon: So, the studying was classroom studying or was it hands on practical …
Ami: A combination of both yes, so you might do the first few months, maybe 3 months which is Engineering Principles. Everything from diagrams to some hands-on bits and pieces. Fundamental Principles, you go and join a ship for a year. I joined HMS Exeter and then if you meet the required standard after that 1 year of training which you’re assessed, you then return for 18 months, nearly 2 years of the Foundation Degree sort of bulk, which is purely classroom with a sliver of hands-on here and there but it’s partly for the accreditation and partly because as an Artificer, you work side by side with the Mechanics and they were two different sort of role titles, so you had Mechanics who had the hands-on experience within the job and the Artificers were there with the sort of … I’m going to say intellect but it’s probably the wrong word, but with the educational backup which problem solving was your bag so you would work with the hands-on guys and problem sole and fix things as a team, and that was the intent and then after the sort of 2007 we went back to sea again, implement all of the classroom work that you’d done, all the Fundamentals that you’d learnt much earlier on to roll through the sort of Rank structure and supplement a crew as an enlisted person in a ship which is brilliant.
Simon: And an Artificer is the one that makes the engines run, or what’s the description of that?
Ami: So, the Artificer is a type of Engineer and we used to in the Navy, when Artificers were in like I say you would have an Engineering Mechanic or an Engineering Artificer. That’s whether you were an Air Engineer, a Weapons Engineer or a Marine Engineer so from a Marine Engineering perspective like myself, you could be dealing with everything from Air-Conditioning, High-Pressure Systems, High Pressure Air, High Pressure Hydraulics, Sewage Treatment, Propulsion which is … before I worked in ships my personal favourite so that’s everything from Gas Turbines, Diesels, Propellors, Shafts, Gear Boxes, all of that really interesting stuff. So, it is a really wide range. The Artificer is purely the supplementary problem-solving person to the Mechanics Team, is the best way. We’re all Operators, it’s just that we operate in a slightly different ways but effectively generate a team of individuals to deliver the marine requirements of the platform that you’re on.
Simon: It seems like a huge amount … it’s across so many different areas. Obviously it takes a long time to learn it.
Ami: Yes.
10 minutes 3 seconds
Simon: Do you manage to keep it all in your head, or you sort of refer to Manuals every now and again?
Ami: Yeah, on a daily basis you are at sea is probably the best way to explain it. You are a Watch Keeper so you’re an Operator of the equipment so be it and as you progress from a lower rank Able Rating or a Marine Engineering Mechanic, of a Marine Engineering Artificer which is what you are, you can then become a Leading Hand, then a Petty Officer and a Chief Petty Officer, so it’s really important that when you’re a Mechanic or Artificer at the bottom that you get that fundamental engineering understanding of where vales are, how the systems work, and Engineering Principles aren’t … or maybe to me they aren’t difficult to grasp and you can apply the same understanding of fluid dynamics or thermos dynamics or pressure volume relationships, all of these sort of Fundamental Engineering Principles are what then you can apply to whatever equipment you’re using, be it the diesels, the gas turbines, or you know biology in sewage treatment, everything. And so you build from it a Junior Rate, as a Leading Hand and you don’t forget it because it’s what you do every day. You operate. You know for the more specific tasks absolutely we’ve got Books of Reference that we use, hard copies. I mean when I first joined, they used to have microfiche. I don’t know if you remember microfiche.
[REDACTED]
Simon: Of course, there’s a team there of varying levels of expertise in different bits, ok.
Ami: Very much so.
Simon: So, how long did you do that role for?
Ami: So, I was in HMS Exeter for a year for the whole of 2004. I came back and did my Foundation Degree and then I joined HMS Southampton as a Leading Hand. I moved on … between HMS Southampton to HMS Daring and I left HMS Daring in February 2007, so that’s 3 years I was delivering some sort of Engineering in either the oldest ship in the Fleet which was HMS Southampton or HMS Daring which we brought out of build in Glasgow in 2009.
Simon: That’s quite a contrast isn’t it?
Ami: I think I’ve said this in a brief before. It’s like getting out of an old mini at the time and then getting into a Ferrari. It’s so different.
Simon: Wow really, that strong, ok. But you learn lots from the one that didn’t run so well.
Ami: Of course you do.
Simon: Yeah, ok.
Ami: But then the challenge in the new platform was always that as the first of the new Type 45s, you had nobody to ring. You had the books, you had your experience and this Fundamental Engineering knowledge that you have across the team and you have to go, “Right, ok, what’s gone wrong, what could it be?” The Equipment Teams that are there to support you, everybody’s got as much knowledge or less than you because you’re on the front line trying to understand how it all works now that it’s all been put together for the first time.
Simon: And the Equipment people, that’s the Manufacturer is it?
Ami: A combination of, so you’ve got the OEM which is somebody like Rolls Royce or Wärtsilä for the diesels but we also work alongside a team on MOD Abbeywood who look after equipment per desk, so that will be the Gas Turbines desk, the HP Air desk and they’re also there to support sort for main units as well.
Simon: So, there is a Help Line you can call to say, “We’re a bit stuck” (laughs) “We’ve tried everything.”
15 minutes 3 seconds
Ami: Yeah I mean obviously, again the nice thing about first of class is that you have … you generally have the OEM there, contractually dependant because it will be the first time that they’ve put it. They might have the WR21 Gas Turbine that we had at the time was the first time it had ever been used outside of Rolls Royce test bed. Well, not only was it being used, but it was connected to an alternator when we were using it to generate high voltage electricity on a ship that was floating somewhere, you know, so they’re keen to be there and provide the continuity of understanding as the OEM alongside people that are used to doing this at sea, as Operators.
Simon: So, at what point did you start getting tempted by the Submarine Service then?
Ami: I was tempted from the day that I joined.
Simon: Really?
Ami: Yes, nuclear reactors are you know, so fascinating but when I was in the Careers Office, you know you read the pamphlet and the pamphlet says come and work for nuclear reactors. Nuclear reactors are cool. Yes they are, but unfortunately they’re not available to women at this time.
Simon: Right.
Ami: So, in 2012 I was selected for promotion from the Ranks to become a Commissioned Officer and concurrently they were changing the rules to allow females in submarines, so I was mentored by a Submariner who knew I was changing over who was very keen, because I was working at HMS Sultan at the time as an Instructor and he said, “Oh, I’ve heard you’re going to Dartmouth, you’re going to become an Officer. Have you thought about submarines? We’re changing the rules” and I was like, “Absolutely, where do I sign?” And what I found was a huge complement was when integrating women in submarines, they were quietly cautious. It’s a big change to life onboard as it was in the early ‘90s when women were introduced into ships, and so the message I got was they needed somebody with credibility to come across as one of the first in the Marine Engineering Department.
Simon: Credibility meaning that you’ve proven yourself already.
Ami: Yes, so proving yourself as a competent and delivering Engineer, be it in ships, you’ve kind of fought half the battle when you join anyway, other than they’ll call you a ‘skimmer’ for the rest of your life. Yeah, it will never go away but there was definite appetite to say, “This person has delivered, they’ve been an Engineer Officer of the Watch on ships, they know what they’re doing” which the hope was then that it would make that transition a little bit more simple because I’m not a graduate straight out of the box which some are. Doesn’t make them any less competent but I think submariners might be a little bit more accepting of someone whose been in the Navy for 12 years at that time.
Simon: Ok, yeah. Right, you’ve proven yourself, you’re not there as a passenger effectively. You’re going to be contributing.
Ami: Not as a passenger. There’s this assumption I suppose that if you’ve managed to make the rank of Chief Petty Officer … if you’ve made the rank of Chief Petty Officer in the Submarine Service, that’s a big deal and there are very few and far between that make it to Chief Petty Officer without being good at their job, and you know there is an assumed transfer over that you come over with a “I used to be a Chief” and so hopefully people will give you … I can’t think of the right phrasing but you know they’ll give you the credibility that it deserves that you’ve worked and you’ve achieved that. And I felt that was the case for sure.
Simon: So, the 2012, ‘cos I was looking up, the Government Statement came out in 2011 to say we’re now going to be changing the rules, so you were early in on 2012 to be starting to get involved.
Ami: Because the pipe line as a Marine Engineer is so long, because we are nuclear plant operators and also I was going to University for a year to finish my Degree because it is a prerequisite for Marine Engineering Officers in the Submarine Service, to have an Engineering or Physics Based Degree, to be able to progress, I wasn’t at that point, “Yes, you’ve got it” it was, “We really want you to do it, so I did a year at University in 2012 and then I joined BRNC Dartmouth as an Officer trainee, which is 7 months in itself. So, that’s before I even started any of the Officer Training, and I think that the first ladies that served, the first three, they served in HMS Vigilant in 2014, so even though … and again they’d been sort of picked out at Dartmouth I think around about a similar time but they will historically push out of their training onto the platform before Marine Engineers would. And that was expected.
20 minutes 53 seconds
Simon: What was the experience of going to Dartmouth like?
Ami: It was interesting (laughs). You have to be fairly humble. There was 18 of us ‘upper-yardies’ that’s what we’re called. What does that mean? That means that you’ve been in the Navy for an amount of time and you have been promoted from the Ranks and as a Chief Petty Officer you’re used to giving orders, you’re used to being in charge of a team, and when you go to Dartmouth, you are bottom of the food pile and that’s fine. You know you just have to sort of swallow that pride and just say, “I have to do this to get to where I need to go” but also you can’t really complain, you’re being paid to go and do exercise for 30 weeks or whatever it was and actually you meet all of your peers that you’re going to be working alongside for the rest of your Naval career for the ones that stay. And it’s really important that again to have the credibility in the Ward Room, it’s really important to have gone through that with them so that when you are then presented to the Ward Room, where the Officers are, that you’ve done Dartmouth. You’ve done it, you’ve completed it, you’re competent. You know that’s the sort of baseline that we all start in. So, it was long, there was a lot of running around with bags on your back and carrying stretchers with fake people in and it’s brilliant. And I went back to sea actually on HMS Bulwark to do some Sea Training and there was an assumption, and rightly so because we don’t walk round saying I was a Cadet and that I was fresh out of University and they were meant to do Operational Sea Training and take charge. “Right Ma’am, take charge of the flood down there” and I was like, “Ok, are you sure? And they were like, “Yes ma’am, you go” and so I started doing my thing and they were like …
Simon: Like how you used to be.
Ami: “Kill her, kill her immediately. She’s too effective, right, you’re dead” (laughs) and that went on for about 7 weeks and they were like, “Ah, are you an ex-yardy” and I was like, “Yes.” “Marine Engineer?” I was like, “Yes.”
Simon: Right.
Ami: “Die” (laughs). You not going to be put in charge of anything anymore because you’re too effective.
Simon: Right, you ticked that off early on so you didn’t need to … ok.
Ami: So you do that as a routine as part of your General Service time so when you work in ships, you’re always going through Sea Training and the Marine Engineers have a massive part to play be it in ships or subs, and so yeah they were like, “Oh God, we’ve got a ‘yardy ME.’ Just keep killing her off (laughs), she’s ruining the game.
Simon: So then, that went on for how long? 7 months did you say?
Ami: So, I was at Royal Naval College until May 2014. I then went to HMS Sultan to do some more Officer Training and luckily for me it was sort of tailored at that point because they said, “We don’t need to put you through all this Officer Training because you’ve done most of the fundamentals. This is again to establish a baseline for Junior Officers.” Everything from Fundamental Engineering Principles and all the stuff I learned a few years previous, so I went and joined HMS Victorious earlier than my peers while they were doing things that I’d done previously in ship lift.
Simon: What’s a ship lift?
Ami: So, in HM Naval Base we have a facility that is used to … the boat will drive into the ship lift and rather than a Dry Dock where a submarine or a ship will come into a Dry Dock, the caisson will close and then it will be drained. The ship lift is the opposite, where you’ll drive onto the ship lift and the ship lift will raise the submarine out of the water.
25 minutes 6 seconds
Simon: It’s literally something that lifts a ship, right, ok.
Ami: And so I joined HMS Victorious in the ship lift which was the most incredible thing I’d ever seen. You don’t realise when you see a submarine on the surface, how little of it you see. It’s probably a third, depending on how she’s buoyant and so it was brilliant, and I got to go in all of the horrible places that nobody ever wants to go but I do (laughs). You know, the external tanks, where we keep some of our really sort of safety fundamental equipment, HP Air, where some of the shafting, huge engineering masterpieces whereby we’ve got where the rudders and the shaft and the after planes all sort of sit in one big compartment back aft which is an external tank to the boat. And I got to go in there and I’m a sort of visual learner and by going in these tanks you can see what’s on the other side of the bulkhead that you’re used to being inside the boat. And you learn even more, so it was brilliant.
Simon: No matter how many microfiches or diagrams, whatever you look at it’s not going to be anything like piecing it together in front of you.
Ami: No, and then that’s also really helpful so that if you do have any issues or defects, you know you hear noises. If you hear a noise coming from a compartment that’s outside the boat, you can then picture it in your mind’s eye that’s not … and go “Yeah, actually there’s a ladder there, there’s a valve protrusion, there’s all sorts and that was really, really helpful for me learning how to become a Submariner.
Simon: And is that why they tasked you to do that do you think?
Ami: No, it was the next on submarine that needed a training.
Simon: So, you’ve now switched into submarines then have you?
Ami: To switch into submarines is a funny … I was a submarine trainee at that point, so at Dartmouth, I was selected to become a Submariner Trainee and they’re very particular about this. You’re a Submariner Trainee, you’re a Part 3, you’re a BSQ until you have earnt your dolphins, and then you’re a Submariner. [REDACTED]. There’s been an introduction of a black set of dolphins for the Trainees, to make sure that they understand they’re still part of the Submarine sort of Team, you’re just a Trainee still (laughs). So, yes, when I joined HMS Victorious I was a Trainee and it was literally crawling around every compartment doing my BSQ, which is the Basic Submarine Qualification, the old Part 3.
Simon: The old Part 3, right, ok. Actually, on the black dolphins, he was saying when he went through his training, there were some people onboard who would not speak to him until he got his dolphins and then they (laughs) and then they are like, “Oh hello mate” (laughs).
Ami: Absolutely not (laughs).
Simon: So, I guess with your background in particular, does the Part 3 … I know it’s not easy but what’s the new letters for it?
Ami: BSQ. Basic Submarine Qualification.
Simon: You kind of, with an engineering approach, you’re sort of picturing everything that works anyway aren’t you?
Ami: I’m already built that way, so I know how to trace a system, I know what valves look like, I know how to understand how a system might work from a book and in person, so I was in the best position that I could have been to do it in as short a time as is appropriate. You know, for you to … for the engineering side anyway because your BSQ is a lot of engineering, you know, submarine safety. It’s the other routines and stations. I know what routines and stations are from ships, but understanding how subs work, the routines that they work, who closes up, why you close up and there are a lot of differences from ships and it was just getting my head round that but also silly things like pipes. You know they make main broadcast pipes very differently on boats.
Simon: What’s different there then between the two?
30 minutes
Ami: The way that you … that the language that’s used, so an Emergency Pipe is in some cases very different, a different kind of alarm. The way that you deliver the information is and it sounds like, it’s just words but when you’ve been bred to make pipes in a certain way, and even the whole concept behind Emergency Pipes. There’s a couple of things that we have. One, a Standardised Emergency Pipe means that people understand exactly what you’re saying and it avoids confusion and allows people to react really, really quickly. If you make a Main Broadcast Pipe … if I made a General Service Main Broadcast Pipe, people would get really confused because it is not the same pattern of words that you deliver as a Submariner, and that was a really big thing for me to get out of the muscle memory of General Service Pipes some of which they don’t even make in submarines and get into the ones we use on boats.
Simon: It’s not quite learning a new language, just reordering the language that you know.
Ami: Yes, but it’s muscle memory on purpose. Just nuances (laughs).
Simon: And what other … some people have said that compared with surface ships, it’s a lot more relaxed onboard a submarine in terms of layers of seniority. Is that something you found?
Ami: You still have the Rank structure because that is required in terms of what you wear on your shoulders. I think my opinion would be that we work as a team and it’s not that the Rank isn’t there, it’s absolutely more relaxed. It’s not as formal at all but we’re all there to deliver the same output and we understand that everybody, from the youngest lads and lasses down in the main machinery space, their scram drill in back aft is just as important as mine in manoeuvring and that’s where I think the lack of formality, I don’t think it’s intentional, it’s just because we know we rely on one another like a team whereas I find General Service is a little bit more hierarchical than subs. You don’t really throw your Rank around unless you have to.
Simon: Right, and that’s down to the fact of ‘we’re all in this together and without each other’ it’s more serious in many ways than being on the surface ‘cos there’s a lot of wet stuff around you.
Ami: Yes, and that’s just in daily pootling around at Patrol speeds or going out and doing Operations on any platform, submarines I mean, in that the wet stuff is around you all the time whereas I think when ships go into different postures, that formality is relaxed a little bit because you get … again they become this sort of cohesive team delivering an output and there are dangers there whereas I don’t think in ships the danger is always there like it is in boats. It’s fascinating how everybody is trained to react to an incident. If an incident happens it’s everybody’s responsibility on a boat. On a ship it … you might have a fire somewhere and people wouldn’t even get out of bed, and I find it incredible. I remember there was a flood on a ship I was on and people were like just still carrying on with the dinner, and that’s what I love about boats. One in, all in, for the absolutely right reasons as well.
Simon: How was that … I mean you were fairly early on as a woman onboard.
Ami: I was the only female …
Simon: Which year was that you went on …
Ami: … in Victorious.
[REDACTED]
Simon: Which year was that again?
Ami: 2014 [REDACTED].
Simon: So that’s … you’re really early on in being a female Submariner.
Ami: We were the first Marine Engineers to go through.
Simon: Right, ok. And how, I mean there’s an adjustment, you know you’ve got a preconception I guess of what it’s going to be like to shift, to go on to submarines?
Ami: Yeah, I mean it’s … I think the question was always ‘are we going to be accepted?’ and will it make things difficult? All of those questions, and I think the anxiety was probably greater than the event because it transpires that Submariners only care if you are competent at your job.
35 minutes 27 seconds
Simon: Right. Isn’t that wonderful? (laughs).
Ami: Isn’t it wonderful, exactly. You know, they just want you to turn up and be good and it doesn’t really matter what gender you are. There are amendments that need to be made to sort of allow women to be accommodated on a boat, and that’s probably what caused the biggest issue in that you know you might have 60 people sharing three showers for the whole Patrol and at first because we were being correctly cautious about segregation, you know three girls had one shower and the other 57 people then only had two showers. They were more bothered about that and they only had two toilets instead of three, you know. That’s probably the biggest teething problems.
Simon: Yeah, because life just becomes a little bit more difficult for them I guess.
Ami: And there’s just a bigger queue or …
Simon: It’s an inconvenience. Sort of, it’s an adjustment.
Ami: That’s a big word (laughs). The inconvenience lies in that there are more people using two showers rather than having women onboard for sure.
Simon: No, I guess that’s what I was saying. And has that continued with a dedicated showers and toilets for women onboard?
Ami: Well, it does for … depending on where you live. The Ward Room heads and bathrooms are now combined, male and female toilets, and the male and female showers however we’ve got doors and shower curtains and signage so that you don’t end up showering men and women together.
Simon: Gotcha. Right, ok, makes sense.
Ami: Again, that’s for such a small number of people. It may be like 20 people so actually you don’t generally have … you don’t shower a lot on a boat anyway, let’s face it, so it doesn’t cause any issues at all and for the ratings, we definitely now have good numbers going through whereas actually you might have … how many were in the Mess, I think we had maybe 10 girls using one shower which then makes it you’re then …
Simon: Seems a little bit more reasonable for the male’s point of view, right.
Ami: Starts to balance it out.
Simon: ‘Cos it’s not just there empty the whole time, it’s getting used.
Ami: Yes.
Simon: Ok, and what other … so you had a preconception that proved not to be the case and it was then just … I mean that is quite wonderful that you’re seen as you’re there if you can contribute, fantastic, it’s great to have you here.
Ami: Absolutely. It’s genderless.
Simon: Not always the same in normal society (laughs).
Ami: No, but then you do get people who turn up who are not very good and they might be male and you know, it doesn’t matter. They’ll treat you as per …
Simon: Right. And what other adjustments did you have on your preconceptions?
Ami: It’s quite difficult for me because I’m institutionalised by 12 years at that time so I know approximately how the Navy works in terms of how best to approach people. How to communicate with Navy people whereas you know some of the Graduates might not … it’s not an instinctive thing, and then so not only having a female come up to you, but a female who doesn’t speak the Navy language. It didn’t mean that it made it any more difficult, it was just this sort of dance around getting used to having trainees but a lot of men didn’t know how to behave at sea.
Simon: ‘Cos they’d been so used to a male only environment.
Ami: Yeah, and I don’t think it’s a bad thing. You’re used to going to sea with who your used to going to sea with. You know they’d watch specific films or they’d put posters up and things like that and they just had to be mindful that women would be walking around the platform. Even just down to the way that they might transit from their accommodation to the showers. Some of them would happily transit from their accommodation with no clothes on previously but they now have to not do that. And again, you know, it’s all about having those lines of communication between … so for me as an Engineering Officer, I have to still say to the guys, “Look, have you got any problems with what we’re doing and how we’re living it and how can we change it? And I think every time we sent females to sea in the first few iterations it was ‘how can we make this transition easier?’ A great example was that we do something called ‘bird bathing’ which is when showers are out and water is rationed, you might sort of clean yourself in a sink of water, and there was an assumption that women would do this behind closed doors. Absolutely, that’s what we do, but there was nothing put up to hide the guys.
41 minutes 11 seconds
Simon: Right.
Ami: And so about a few weeks into the Patrol, somebody came to see me and said, “Ma’am, I’m not comfortable ‘bird bathing’ if you’re going to come into the showers and see me ‘bird bathing” and I said, “You’re absolutely right, we need to put a shower curtain up or we need to address that” and so the onus was making the females feel comfortable and we probably hadn’t focussed as much on making sure that the guys were as comfortable as well, and that just takes time, and sometimes you need to experience these things to go, “Oh yeah, we need to address that.”
Simon: That’s good, so then you had the boat lift and then you were out on Patrol. What were you doing then at that point? You were overseeing … had you passed your … I keep calling it a Part 3?
Ami: So, that was … the Patrol was us … well I’d done, BSQ takes months. It’s a big thick book. I’ll probably go and grab it from the loft at some point, but it’s precising systems, going through the routines and stations. You have to go through multiple signatures and walk rounds and that can take a lot of time so doing it in a ship lift is quite difficult to do, but then you go on Patrol and you end up with a captive audience. There’s always somebody on Watch, there’s always somebody around to sit and go, “Can I talk you through Hydraulics, can I talk you through Fire Fighting?”
Simon: Talking you through, that’s them offering to share their knowledge with you.
Ami: Well, in some instances, where things aren’t written down, but there is an expectation that you night go to somebody and say, “I’m going to talk you through what I understand about this part of my BSQ” and then if they believe that you have the right knowledge, they’ll sign it off. It’s a mistake to ask somebody to talk you through something without looking for it in the book. It’s the unwritten rule (laughs). You know, if you go and say, “Can you talk me through Hydraulics?” the first question a Submariner will ask is, “Well tell me what you know about Hydraulics first.”
Simon: Ok.
Ami: ‘Cos that’s just sponging off the information rather than being proactive, which is expected.
Simon: So, it’s you filling in the little cracks between knowledge rather than just as you say just sponging all of theirs.
Ami: Asking somebody to teach you ‘cos that’s just not the way Submariners do it.
Simon: And when you … what was your walk around, or do they still call it a walk around?
Ami: Ah ha.
Simon: What was that like?
Ami: It was very long (laughs).
Simon: Like how long?
Ami: So, they’re awful. And I don’t mean awful in a bad way, I mean awful in that they … once you’ve done a walk round, on an SSBN your walk round is split up into three areas, for’ard which is the for’ard staff which is the strategic weapons and back aft is for the Marine Engineers to do, and to facilitate your presentation to do a Board, so before you’re even allowed to sit a Board, you’ve got to do for’ard, mid and aft, with a member of the sort of Senior Rates of those respective areas and then as an Officer you then have to go round with the DMEO or you have to go round with the XO or you have to go round with the … you have to kind of do the same thing over and over again but with different people who want a different level of knowledge from you to make sure that you will, when you sit down to do your Board, the knowledge that you need to sit and do the Board. The idea being is by the time you’ve done your walk rounds; you should have covered almost everything in your BSQ and it should be a formality. It should, not always the case at all, and so the walk round can be 5 or 6 hours.
45 minutes 22 seconds
Simon: That’s a long time isn’t it?
Ami: At the time (laughs).
Simon: And that’s you just spurting information the whole time.
Ami: Literally. This is the HP Air System, this is what it supplies, these are the valves that you use, and it’s absolutely required. It’s not that it’s not required, it’s so in-depth because you need to know. If you walk into a … for’ard dome is where generally we start, if you walk intro there and there’s a HP Gas burst, or ‘what system is it coming from? Is it HP Air? Is it something else?’
Simon: That’s high pressure is it?
Ami: Yes, High Pressure Air. What system is it going to affect if you shut that valve because you’re trying to isolate it to protect the boat? You almost have to think about second and third order effects in your actions and that’s what the BSQ is there for. If I shut this valve, am I going to stop us being able to use the fore planes on the hydraulics? Am I going to stop us from being able to blow HP Air into the tanks and bring the boat back to the surface? And also, for reporting. [REDACTED]. If water is coming in, where is it coming in from? So, it is absolutely required, but it’s just tiring (laughs). It takes so long. I think your BSQ Board, when you’re sitting with for an Officer, it will be the Captain, the XO, the WEO. So, the Executive Officer, the Weapons Engineering Officer and the Marine Engineering Officer. You take your biscuits and you sit down with some sort of bribery cakes tat you’ve kept in the back of your locker since you’ve sailed. I can’t eat those because they’re for my BSQ Board, and you already know this. Somebody has already told you this is the unwritten stuff. And then you pass your Board and it’s the most wonderful feeling in the world. I cried and the XO had absolutely no idea what to do. He just stood up, he tapped me on the shoulder and said, “Well done” and just left ‘cos he was like there’s a crying female that’s sat here, ‘cos I was elated.
Simon: It’s just relief.
Ami: Relief and I was elated. That’s maybe 12 years into my Naval career and I’d wanted it for that long. So yeah, it was long, required and great and we all came back off the Patrol qualified and it was great.
[REDACTED].
Ami: You know, you get the whole Ship’s Company together, everybody’s given their dolphins, it’s brilliant.
Simon: And have you kept your first set of dolphins?
Ami: I have and the black … so, you’re issued a black sew-on patch for you’re PCS Uniform and you’re issued a set of gold dolphins as well so …
Simon: And how long were you floating on air having done that then?
Ami: I think I went to sleep for about 3 days (laughs). I remember just lying in my bed and thinking I now have the capacity to watch some TV or you know, have a few days off. [REDACTED]
50 minutes 52 seconds
Simon: They give you that space do they?
Ami: Yeah, some of the other Branches there’s really not much else for them to do other that maybe try and qualify in some of their Branch specific roles, so yeah, a few days of relaxing and then back to the studying really.
Simon: What’s the studying after that then?
Ami: The Branch specific roles, so for Cat C Watch Keepers and that sort of stuff. It doesn’t stop (laughs). It still hasn’t stopped.
Simon: Right. So, which year are we now?
Ami: So, that’s 2015. [REDACTED]y. I had to do a Mathematics pre-course because the Nuclear Reactor Course which we were joining HMS Sultan to do which is a 1 year. So, the best way to describe … for a Marine Engineer, you are an AMEO, an Assistant Marine Engineering Officer. You’re an AMEO baby ‘T’, so a little ‘T’ and that’s what we were at that time, so you’re a little ‘T’ trainee. You go back to Sultan; you do a year of Nuclear Reactor Course which is an accredited Post Graduate Diploma and Nuclear Reactor Technology. [REDACTED]. So, once you’ve done NRC, you then go back to sea to join another platform and you go as a big ‘T’ so you’ve been promoted from AMEO little ‘T’ to big ‘T’ as a Cat A Watch Keeper Trainee. So, 2015 to ’16 I did an NRC. [REDACTED].
Simon: Why did you have to do all that again?
Ami: Everybody has to do it. So, once you’ve been out of a boat for more than a year …
Simon: Oh, I see.
Ami: … you have to demonstrate that your knowledge is still current, for safety, so you re-qualify there, [REDACTED], you do a set of drills which are assessed, and then you’ll do a very long Oral Board to become a Cat A Watch Keeper which for us is top of the shop, and I would probably argue that was more important to me than becoming a Submariner. I don’t think I cried at that one (laughs). I think I was too tired. I honestly think I was … you know they expect when you pass your Cat A Board, everyone goes, “Right, brilliant. We’re going to go and celebrate” and I was like, “I’m going to have a glass of champagne and I’ll go to bed.”
55 minutes 50 seconds
Simon: Right.
Ami: Because you’ve learnt from you know 4 years of knowledge comes to the Board and you go, “Ok, I’m going to tell you I know about Nuclear Reactors and Operating a boat” and it was incredible, but then you’re duty every day.
[REDACTED]
Simon: That’s sort of check and balance is it?
Ami: That’s just to operate the boat and keep her at sea.
[REDACTED]
Simon: Can you … I mean, what’s that phrase, ‘explain it like I’m 5?’ Ok, there’s a thing called a Nuclear Reactor …
Ami: Ah, so I’m going to use a phrase that nobody likes inside of the Marine Engineering, which is ‘it is just a big kettle.’
Simon: Why don’t they like it?
Ami: Because it simplifies how cool our job is (laughs). It is literally a steam generating kettle. So, the heating elements inside your kettle are effectively filled with primary coolant which is heated by the Reactor. So, your primary coolant sits inside a closed circuit which is pumped around and then the heat is taken off …
Simon: So, the rods are hot, the nuclear material is hot, and that heats up the coolant.
Ami: Yes, that’s correct. So, the nuclear fuel will heat up the coolant so the primary coolant and then you’ve got a primary to secondary interface which is the Steam Generators and what they do is, they take the primary coolant, heat up the secondary water very much like your kettle and then we create steam, and steam is then used to either direct drive the Main Engines of the boat or direct drive Electrical Generators which gives us our electrical power and distribution. And then we have take offs for various other reasons and then basically that water that’s in the secondary system, the steam is used for driving your Engines and the Turbo Generators. It’s then condensed back into water, sent back to the Steam Generator and that’s sort of … you’ve got effectively two closed loops that are used to generate power and to generate propulsion.
Simon: And the steam is … it’s not like a steam engine is it? How does it then make the boat move forward?
60 minutes
Ami: So the steam, well the steam makes the boat move forward because we have Steam Turbines, so if you can imagine, if you’re 5, what are they called? The wind turbines.
Simon: Yeah.
Ami: So using similar principles, not the same.
Simon: OK.
Ami: The wind turbines turn because it’s windy, you know, and we have a very similar concept of operations whereby you take the steam on two Turbines which turn the turbine blades, which directly drives the gear box, which drives the shaft out the back of the boat.
Simon: Right OK.
Ami: And the electrical generation is purely Turbines again but it drives an alternator like your car does, very simple.
Simon: Yeah, and that electricity then is used to, you take in saline water and then purify it to be, right.
Ami: Yep, so we boil it off again under a vacuum.
Simon: Right, so there’s a lot of steam involved then? (laughs)
Ami: There’s a lot of steam back aft, it is like a lovely sauna.
Simon: Is it really hot there is it?
Ami: It can be, it depends where you’re operating.
[REDACTED]
Simon: Right, OK. Gosh, no wonder you went to College for so long! (laughs).
Ami: (laughs).
Simon: Yeah, I’m sure there’s more to it than just that.
Ami: That’s probably a simply as I can really explain. It’s much easier with a piece of paper and a diagram to sort of show you but it’s, in theory it’s very safe.
Simon: And how was the… how was the shift from gears and everything that you were doing before to the nuclear side, to, ‘cos I mean, once it becomes, once it’s out of, once you’ve got steam it’s all the same stuff really isn’t it?
Ami: Exactly, yeah.
Simon: But how is it to shift to, it’s just like, well this isn’t a petrol engine, it’s just an engine that works in a different way.
Ami: It’s just a Gas Turbine that works in a different way, which is brilliant because that’s what I used to teach, so in terms of turbine theory and the gearing and absolutely, what you’re saying is right, everything in the engine space is pretty much the same as what I did on a Type 42. The nuclear stuff was definitely so much more difficult to get my head round.
Simon: Because it’s utterly new and who knows about that, you just, you know.
[REDACTED]
Simon: OK. So, when you did your, A, is it part A? Series A?
Ami: Cat A.
Simon: Cat A.
Ami: Yes.
Simon: That was … how long ago was that?
Ami: 2017.
[REDACTED]
Ami: Because you’re back aft and you are the Section Officer for all of the guys and girls in the sort of aft compartments who look after everything from Main Engines to propulsion to shaft lines to, everything after the sort of 130 bulkhead in a V Boat. Once you’ve sort of done your time there, which generally includes a Patrol of some sort of duration, you’ll be writing operational defect signals, you’ll be doing some staff work, you’ll be learning to become a Divisional Officer if you haven’t done it before, you know, you’ll be learning to become a Naval Officer alongside, and Watch Keeping and Operating and being duty, and you’ll then move on to become AMEO Ships which is ships systems, so you know like a forward AMEO, you’re like the senior AMEO. So, you might be AMEO Ships and you’ve got AMEOP who’s behind you and AMEO big ‘T’ and little ‘T’ so, you know, there is a big team and ship systems is what it says on the tin; you’ll work for’ard and you’ll look after the stuff that keeps the submarine safe so AMEOP very much deals with the back aft Marine Engineering bits. AMEO Ships will be looking after Hydraulics, HP Air, Ventilation, Blowers, which are a really key part, Sewage, everything else basically, for’ard and then … so from becoming a big ‘T’ to a ‘P’ to a Ships is normally about three or four years and once you’ve done that time, you, if you’re good enough you’ll receive what’s called a Charge Recommend, so you’re MEO will say “OK, well you’ve delivered and you are being recommended to become a Charge Engineer and a Charge Engineer is the top two in our onboard organisation, the DMEO, the Deputy Marine Engineer Officer and the Marine Engineer Officer. You’ve got to sit another Board for that. You’ve got to do some more studying, which is again like a whole different … so you do have to remember all of the things that you learnt as a Cat A1 and how you’ve implemented them in your time at sea, how you manage defects, how you manage a maintenance period, how you manage a nuclear logic, which is how we conduct nuclear work and the processing which we manage it, how you plan it and how you execute it to make sure that your maintenance period is complete, ready to become, ready to go back to sea, so that’s the last thing you do as an AMEO and then you come inboard and you do broadening jobs, you know, to broaden your understanding of …
75 minutes 43 seconds
Simon: What’s inboard mean?
Ami: Shoreside jobs.
Simon: OK.
Ami: So a job that’s not associated with a frontline unit.
Simon: OK.
Ami: As in on, operating on a front-line unit and that is, the scope of work there is huge. It can be anything from …
Simon: That’s something that, you’ve made that shift now?
Ami: Yep, so I’m just finishing now.
Simon: Right.
Ami: I do Nuclear Assurance, so I work to ensure that we, Navy Command and units are complying with nuclear regulations for safety, audits and internal audits, going out to different units and things like that which is a really great job but you could also be a Military Assistant to a Commodore, you could go and do some really deep technical work for nuclear propulsion, you can go and do emergency arrangements in London, [REDACTED], it’s all about making you a better, more rounded Naval Officer and increasing your knowledge of the wider Naval enterprise and the submarine enterprise for your return as a Charge Engineer, and to give you a break as well because the tempo is, the tempo is great when you are on a boat and you do need a rest.
Simon: Right, and that … it’s the SSNs you’ve always done is it?
Ami: SSBNs.
Simon: SSBNs?
Ami: Yes.
Simon: So that’s what they call the bombers is it?
Ami: Yes.
Simon: Right, OK, and so that’s more long-term Patrols?
Ami: Yes, well, longer patrols yes but an SSN might be on Patrol for less time but they’ll be going into a foreign port, [REDACTED]. We don’t have emails, we don’t have connectivity with the outside world, we go and do what we do and come back for a short amount of time. There’s not really any sort of foreign stops over there. Maybe to go over to America but that’s it.
Simon: And is there a choice on you doing the SSBNs or did that seem obvious once you’d done the nuclear side? That’s the sort of engine you wanted to focus on if it’s called an engine.
Ami: So, for females, when I became an AMEO little ‘T’ in 2014, Astute Class was not open and neither was Trafalgar Class to females. We were only able to accommodate females in V Boats and …
Simon: Because of the size of them?
Ami: Yeah and the flexibility of the accommodation as well. We were able to segment the ladies away from the guys rather than mixed, mixed accommodation on V Boats because I think the Navy realised that they need to do it properly and so they put ladies in the V Boats, understanding that there was a slight, you know, yes we’re letting females into boats but we just need to get this right and V Boats was the easiest option. Now you can go and serve on A Boat, my friend’s the WEO of an A Boat so, but while we’ve made that transition, because that was eight years ago, and there is a particular system that the Navy has to fit to a boat that will take females to sea, so we had to get into the point of getting that fitted to all the boats.
Simon: Right, right. One thing that’s spoken about a lot is, in the previous interviews I’ve done, is the Brotherhood.
Ami: Yeah.
Simon: Is there a Sisterhood among the female … I mean you’ve got the Brotherhood who are the other Submariners as well but is there a Sisterhood within the females onboard?
80 minutes
Ami: Not, well we all live together generally but it’s more, like you’re part of the Brotherhood …
Simon: Yeah Ok.
Ami: … rather than being a separate sort of spin-off. If there was ever a spin-off its Branches, you know, it’s the Weapons Engineers and the Marine Engineers, there’s not a, you know, you’re a ‘binbag’ or you’re a ‘dabber’.
Simon: So what’s a binbag? (laughs)
Ami: A ‘binbag’ is a Marine Engineer (laughs)
Simon: Why is that? Where’s that come from?
Ami: Ah it’s an awful story.
Simon: Oh OK well you don’t have to tell it to me (laughs).
Ami: (laughs) It’s just not, if you ask any of the guys that you might have interviewed previously, the story comes from when you’re on Watch, they used to go to the toilet in binbags back aft.
Simon: (laughs) OK.
Ami: So there was this, this, invariably, you know, it used to be that, not the case anymore, we actually have a toilet back aft now.
Simon: Great.
Ami: But they’d be like oh, ‘binbags’, oh, just ‘binbags’, because that, and the name has stuck.
Simon: Right, because you’re on the go the whole time, there’s no time to take a break.
Ami: Yep, and for you to take, you know, in previous platforms where there wasn’t toilets back aft, you would have to get somebody to take the Watch from you for you to go to the toilet.
Simon: Right.
Ami: So you had to be excused from the Watch to go to the loo so now, it’s not the case, now you can actually go to the loo back aft or you actually get a relief if you need to go for’ard, so.
Simon: What was there, there was binbag, what was the other one?
Ami: Dabbers, so that was Warfare Officers.
Simon: And what’s the story behind that one?
Ami: I don’t know what the story behind that is.
Simon: OK.
Ami: There’s a really good book called ‘Jack Speak’.
Simon: Yeah I’ve got that, yeah. I’ll look it up there.
Ami: I think it’ll probably be in there because Dabbers is, does, I think it’s actually a General Service thing, thinking about it, where they, OMs in the olden days, in warfare, they used to do all the painting and it was all about dabbing anti-rust and paint on the upper deck to keep the ship looking well.
Simon: Right Ok, Ok (laughs). Now I mean ‘Jack Speak’ is, it’s a thick book. It’s just like there’s pretty much an unlimited amount of names for everything (laughs).
Ami: Yeah (laughs) and food names, like food names is incredible. I don’t understand where these food names come from but yeah.
Simon: They are, and that’s, really the … how important is food when you’re onboard?
Ami: I find it unbelievable how important food is. I mean I don’t actually eat very much at sea because unless you’re training and the sports equipment’s in, you don’t do a lot and so I can’t justify eating some of the amazing food (laughs) that they put out at the beginning of the Patrol particularly but it really is a source of morale, not only is it a source or morale, it’s how you know what time of day it is, which you probably have heard already. You know, you might wake up because of the Watch patterns and go, “I don’t know what day it is and I don’t know what time it is” and you think ‘OK, well there’s a curry on so it’s Wednesday teatime’.
Simon: Right.
Ami: Or, you know, there is fish and chips so you know it’s going to be Friday lunchtime and people look forward to it, you know, it’s part of the countdown for, seven fish Friday’s until we get home.
Simon: Oh is it? Right.
Ami: Yeah absolutely, you know seven steak nights until you get home, it really is, and people will take their favourite things to sea. I had a huge … when I was training, on my second training Patrol I had a grip, a bag probably three times the size of your rucksack, full of biscuits. It was just biscuits for Boards, for Watch Keeping, you know, I probably snuck a couple of Terry’s Chocolate Oranges in there, I once paid £10 for a Terry’s Chocolate Orange at sea because that’s, that’s morale. When I went, when I, the first time I went on Patrol I hadn’t really switched on to it and then every subsequent Patrol I have like a freezer bag every week and I have one thing a day that is a treat, you know like a Freddo chocolate or a hot chocolate sachet or a little pot of jelly because jelly keeps really well for the whole Patrol. There’s, and then basically I’ll take, you know, I’ll go into the space where this bag is kept, probably in the machine space and it gets covered in all sorts and you’ll dig it out and you’ll be like right, week 12, week 12 treats are a mint chocolate orange or, you know, and that’s just for me, there might be a little bag of peanuts. Some people might take protein powders and you know, a lot of people work out really hard at sea and will come back looking amazing if we’ve got the gym in, for sure, so yeah it really is important. If I don’t get trifle on a Sunday, don’t come to the manoeuvring because I’ll be grumpy and there’ll be tears.
Simon: (laughs)
Ami: (laughs). They once made trifle with Christmas Pudding in. I told somebody this story the other day and the Chef’s used to put my trifle to one side because of the Watch Keeping routines, I was asleep over that dinner.
Simon: OK.
Ami: And they put trifle to one side in the fridge so that when I got up at 12 o’clock at night to go on Watch for one, I’d get my trifle and I’d go back aft and sit in manoeuvring and so I was so excited I sat down with my trifle and as I sort of tucked in it had Christmas Pudding in it and I hate Christmas Pudding and like, you look forward all week to your trifle on a Sunday (laughs), and someone put Christmas Pudding in it, it was, I was devastated, I think I was in a bad mood for about four days.
Simon: (laughs).
Ami: So yeah it’s really important.
Simon: I mean that, yes, that does get across the importance doesn’t it?
Ami: Yeah.
Simon: So everyone’s friendly with the chef?
Ami: Try to be yeah, of course, and if you’re not friends with the Chef then you go hungry.
Simon: Right.
Ami: But food in the Ward Room is a contentious thing, or it was, which is lovely because it’s changing now. So, food is served in the Ward Room by the Stewards historically, whereas in the Senior Rates and the Junior Rates Mess they sort of help themselves from the counter. Onion rings. So, in the Ward Room you’re allowed, you’re given like maybe one or two onion rings on a steak night and then you’d see like the Senior Rates had come out with a bowl with about 40 onion rings and they’d have tin foil on it, they’d be going back to manoeuvring to go and sit on Watch and eat 40 onion rings and you’re like, “I just want more than two onion rings” and it causes fights. And it’s like, and then I think at one point we had posters around the submarine taking the mick out of one of the Officers who just wanted onion rings, Please Donate Your Onion Rings to AMEO Ships, and he came back to his cabin and there were like 20,000 cold, horrid onion rings on his bed (laughs).
Simon: Oh wow (laughs).
Ami: Because, so yes it’s funny but now we’ve sort of got rid of Stewards now and I think we’re going to be trusted to serve ourselves. We might have three onion rings on a treat.
Simon: So when you’re not on a boat, does food have the same importance? I mean it’s sort of ingrained or, it’s just when you’re in that situation and being onboard?
Ami: If somebody tried to have fish on a day that wasn’t Friday I think I’d probably have to take a knee, it’s just wrong, steak can only be eaten on a Saturday.
Simon: Right.
Ami: Yeah, yeah.
Simon: Certain things, the looking forward to it maybe not so much but the regimen, daily.
Ami: Yeah the regimen for sure.
Simon: Right OK, right.
Ami: And watching other people, like “How dare you have steak on a Tuesday! No!” (laughs).
Simon: Yeah, yeah.
Ami: That’s silly isn’t it (laughs).
Simon: (laughs). So that’s interesting the Watch. What hours do you do when you’re onboard then?
Ami: So the for’ard staff will run a six on, six off, which is a really difficult Watch, keeping routine, you’ve got a maximum of maybe five and a half hours in bed at a time but back aft, because we work a one in four routine, we might, our Watch might rotate so we might do, I don’t know, seven ‘til ten in the morning and then seven ‘til eleven at night and then the following day we’ll do ten ‘til one in the morning and then eleven ‘til four in the morning. You know, it rotates in a four-watch shift routine.
Simon: Right.
Ami: Or, we might do the Standing Watches, which I prefer because you can get into a sleep pattern whereby you’re on Watch for six hours a day from one in the morning ‘til seven in the morning, that’s it. Then the rest of time you’re doing all your admin or you’re going to the gym or you’re watching a film or writing letters and such.
Simon: Right, right, and that … when you were saying about the … do they still do family grams?
Ami: Yeah.
Simon: So that’s stuff coming in?
Ami: Yeah.
Simon: And what’s that like, receiving messages from outside?
Ami It’s, it’s wonderful but it comes at a cost You know, there are so many dependencies on you getting your family gram, [REDACTED]
Simon: Right.
90 minutes and 13 seconds
Ami: And it can cause you to sort of, depending on where you are in the Patrol cycle, I think, you know, an ex of mine, he said he didn’t get any of my first four family grams and by the …
Simon: He was on a boat as well was he?
Ami: On a bomber yeah.
Simon: Right OK.
Ami: And he said by the second, after the second one hadn’t come through, but for some reason his mum and dad, so we split them, I had 60 whereas his mum and dad, his mum and dad’s were coming through but mine weren’t.
Simon: Right.
Ami: And he assumed that I’d left him, that was it, so after four weeks he’d just made this assumption (laughs) that I’d left him but because you’re not in the right head space you’re expecting the family grams and …
Simon: Particularly if you’re receiving some?
Ami: Yes and you know, you stop getting them from your family, for whatever reason and it could be that somebody forgets.
Simon: Aha.
Ami: I mean it’s not very often that happens and you really can assume the worst. I remember my second Patrol, I didn’t get any off my partner or off my family and I thought that you just, that they must have been in an accident together.
Simon: Right, right.
Ami: Because your brain isn’t necessarily on the best page because you’re in, you know, a big tin can and that’s … I mean I write letters back to the family grams which is really quite cathartic so you’ll get a family gram through and I’ll say “Oh, well this is what I’m up to” and it’s the same thing, “I’m on Watch today”.
Simon: (laughs).
Ami: “It’s trifle day, I’m very happy!” (laughs)
Simon: (laughs).
Ami: “I’ve been to the gym” and then it’s the same thing but it’s nice that you can always reply in real time. I also write letters to my best friend which are great and when I get home we sit and we read the letters.
Simon: Together?
Ami: Yeah.
Simon: Oh really?
Ami: And we have a bottle of wine and we laugh at how psychotic I become in sort of week five and then you know, you come down off the ceiling and it’s amazing how your brain deviates away from normal, not through anything that happens on the boat, just through being away from your family.
Simon: Right.
Ami: And missing things or, you just, yeah, and so we laugh our heads off at some of the stuff I write and some of it, you know, you’ll get in a bad mood about something at sea and you’ll go, “Oh, this has put me in a bad mood” and then you’ll talk about why it’s put you in a bad mood and it’s ridiculous, really, really ridiculous and then you’re going, “I can’t believe I wrote that.”
Simon: Right. So then if it occurs again next time you’re like, “Do you remember how it was when you” (laughs).
Ami: (laughs). You idiot (laughs).
Simon: Right.
Ami: But it’s good for the soul and I always say to the team, you know, take an exercise book with you and write back to your family and you have control of what you show them, so you know, when you’re having a bad day and you’re hating, you know you’re hating the Navy or you think your partner’s left you, you can say, “I don’t understand why you’ve left me, I haven’t done anything wrong.” It doesn’t mean you have to necessarily show them this letter but it gets it off your chest.
Simon: Yeah right.
Ami: And it’s, it’s a mental health aid really.
Simon: Yeah, you’re not bottling it up, it’s released.
Ami: Because guys don’t talk about anything other than … and they’re really good at, they don’t talk about anything alongside but funny, when you go to sea they might do. That was one thing I think I noticed and some people have commented on this since … it may be that I’m more approachable but Goodness me, I get a lot of people coming to talk to me because I’m a woman.
Simon: Right.
Ami: And they feel comfortable coming and talking about some of those worries at sea, which is lovely because it means that they’re getting it off their chest, and you get another perspective, you know, there’s less judgement maybe.
Simon: Right.
Ami: Or perceived less judgement.
Simon: Yeah.
Ami: They assume that their male counterparts might not be quite so well receiving of something that’s a bit more emotionally challenged.
Simon: Yes.
Ami: And so, you know, I always say, the Tech office door is always open. If I’m sitting in there, come and have a brew and we’ll talk and I’ll tell you how ridiculous you are (laughs).
Simon: (laughs). But in a nice way?
Ami: But then I will rely on you, yeah, I will rely on you in three weeks to tell me how ridiculous I am.
Simon: Right.
Ami: So, yes.
Simon: Right, that’s great to have that outlet otherwise, I mean I guess where does it go otherwise?
Ami: Yes.
Simon: OK, so you’re now based on, on the land, there was another word for it?
Ami: I’m inboard.
Simon: Inshore, inboard.
Ami: Inboard. Yeah, inboard job.
Simon: Inboard, and that lasts for however long now?
Ami: It varies, yeah, so between whoever’s doing an inboard job, mine was supposed to be two but it became three because I was very poorly with Covid and so I needed to recover from that before I could go back, so I will be joining HMS Vigilant.
95 minutes 18 seconds
Simon: Right.
Ami: In August, that’s the DMEO.
Simon: Right, exciting.
Ami: Very.
Simon: Yeah.
Ami: Slightly nervous because you know, you’re in a superior position to what you were so I was selected for promotion in November, to Lieutenant Commander which is good so you know, you go in with a new Rank, to a new boat and it all sort of aligns really, really well and then it’s, it’s going to be a challenging, I’m going to anticipate a four year assignment to the platform, you know, with some ups and downs and delivery, delivery of a bomber, maintenance period and Patrols but I love that challenge. Like I never, ever thought I would be an Officer when I first joined the Navy, never mind becoming an AMEO. You know, there was a point when AMEO was the top of my list of things I thought I would ever achieve in the Navy and now I’m, you know, I’m already thinking past that so yeah I feel like a proper grown up (laughs).
Simon: (laughs). Where does it go then after?
Ami: So, when you’ve done your AMEO’s job and providing you’ve been successful, if you’re not successful you get off a lot quicker (laughs), you might get sacked, but you know, if you’ve done your AMEO’s job and you’ve been successful, you’re really then lining yourself up for a promotion to Commander and then all of the jobs that you do are inboard jobs, they’re shoreside jobs in support of submarine operations, in most cases. For us, Marine Engineers, we’re kept in-house, we’ve got such a raft of knowledge from the training that we do and the experience from what we deliver, we don’t tend to sort of move out of the marine engineering stove pipe but there are opportunities to go and do, you know, jobs in Naples as a Commander, you know, working for NATO and really, the sort of world’s your oyster in some sense, if you’re good enough, and you know, you won’t know that until you’ve left, and suitable.
Simon: So I mean, still strong possibilities of expansion and you know, for you to continue within the Navy. Do you have day where you see leaving? I guess eventually you’ve got to leave.
Ami: Yeah, so there’s, the honest answer is it’s, I’ve done 20 years now, or coming up to 20 years next month and I only have to do two years now and then I get my pension if I want it but I don’t want to leave. I love the job, you know, I look at my boss, who’s a Commander, Nuclear Plant Operating Standards and his job is fascinating. His boss is the Captain, Chief Staff Officer Engineering of the Submarine Service. I mean that is, from a marine engineering perspective, there aren’t many other jobs out there that would top CSOE, that’s and so I think once I’ve done my marine engineering officer job, I think it’s at that point, you know I’ll be eligible for my pension. I can say, am I going to stay and really drive the Navy and try and make the changes and be that female role model because there are no Submariner females above the level of Lieutenant Commander at the minute because it’s, you know, it’s all fairly early but, or do I go and do something completely different outside? Who knows? Because I’ll only be 40, about 41 maybe.
Simon: Right, yeah, that’s young isn’t it?
Ami: And I can start a whole new career if I want to.
Simon: Yeah, yeah.
Ami: Having delivered, you know, the continuous at sea deterrent as a Marine Engineering Officer. I mean that’s brilliant, so that’s probably the fork in the road that I really need to just go, what do I want? Do I want to go and live in the South of France and work at a Nuclear Reactor down there (laughs).
Simon: (laughs) Yeah, because the principles are the same?
Ami: Exactly.
Simon: Right.
Ami: Yes.
[REDACTED]
Simon: Yeah.
Ami: You’re motivated and driven, so.
Simon: Why did he not choose the South of France? (laughs).
Ami: Family, children.
Simon: OK (laughs).
Ami: I don’t have any, well I’ve got family but I don’t have any children so as long as my cat’s happy to move to the South of France (laughs) then we’ll be good.
Simon: (laughs). Meow is pretty a universal language isn’t it?
Ami: Yep.
Simon: Yeah (laughs).
Ami: As long as she’s happy being warm.
Simon: Yeah.
Ami: But you know, I do genuinely want to stay, I want to make a difference to the Submarine Service in that, we’re going through really hard times fiscally in the Services and so we need to be smarter about the way we employ our people and you know, and the equipment that we have. We’ve got new Dreadnaught submarines coming out [REDACTED], you know that’s similar to what I did in HMS Daring but that would be wonderful for me to go up to Barrow and basically generate one of the first Dreadnaught class submarines, the potential is, you know I could work to bring one of those out of build or make things better for the guys that are up in Clyde, the guys and girls. The possibilities are there, it’s just buying into it really.
Simon: I mean, so what would a piece of advice be for you, for anyone wanting to join the Submarine Service?
Ami: Be confident in your abilities. I always say, you know, you walk onto a platform as a grey person so even if you might not be the most competent or the most intelligent, be keen as mustard and just try your hardest, that is all people want to see. If you’re, people say if you’re gash, you know, it doesn’t matter as long as you try hard and you know, we can see that. If you come in and you’ve got the wrong attitude, you know, you come in and you think that you should be spoon fed information and, you know, this entitledness, it is just not well received so come in, be keen, have faith in your ability whatever level you come in at and you will be welcomed with open arms, you really will.
Simon: And you’d recommend it, people to take it up, or do you think they have to have a right, sort of a certain, the willingness, the keenness that you’re talking about being a pre-requisite, do people have to have a certain ..?
Ami: I think, I think you need to be really quite mentally resilient, or willing to improve your own mental resilience, you know. You might not have it now but just understand that it is, it is not easy, it is really, really difficult. It’s difficult physically because the long days, it’s difficult mentally because you’re away from your families, without contact from you to them, or sometimes without contact at all, depending on where you’re operating, so if you, you know, half of the battle is being accepted into the brotherhood and it’s not that they’re not accepting, it’s, they just want you to come in and do your job to the best of your abilities but to make that easier, you need to understand that it is going to be mentally tough and it really is mentally … the hardest, toughest guys will cry at you at some point, in the maintenance period, on the Patrol, because it’s hard and if they don’t cry at you as their Boss, they’ll go home and probably cry at their families because it’s really, really difficult. It’s not impossible though, you know, nobody’s … everybody’s still doing it, everybody does it every day, it’s just something I would be hyper aware of and you’ve got to do it for the right reasons and be bought into a bit of mental toughness.
105 minutes 22 seconds
Simon: And when people are going through that tough period, because everyone else goes through it there’s an understanding of, OK well, they’re going through this at the moment so …
Ami: Yeah, I mean, I always, I always say, you know, you end up finding one or two friends on Patrol, they’re generally not in the same Branch as you, they’re probably not in the same Watch Keeping area as you, they’re like your, you know, your go-to person who you’ll sit and have a coffee somewhere and that sounds all lovely like, in a coffee shop.
Simon: (laughs) Yeah.
Ami: You’ll be sat with your back on a switchboard or something in a cramped space but they’re your person and what will generally happen is that your peaks and troughs will be the opposite of those person’s peaks and troughs so you’ll pull each other up in the times that you’re down.
Simon: Yeah.
Ami: And then you’ve got your Watch Keeping buddies who, you know, if you’re feeling a bit fed up and a bit down, they’ll either leave you alone or they’ll mock you until you feel better again.
Simon: (laughs).
Ami: (laughs). And I say mock you in the light-hearted, you know.
Simon: Yeah.
Ami: They’re like, you know, cheer up, it’s only 10,000 days until you get home.
Simon: (laughs).
Ami: Here, have a piece of Terry’s Chocolate Orange (laughs).
Simon: Right.
Ami: You know, and humour is a big part of it, you know, getting through the tough times.
Simon: So this was originated by Gosport Borough Council and High Street HAS, Heritage Action Zone, so what are your, I mean, the submarines are obviously no longer based in Gosport. What’s your experience or knowledge of Gosport, I mean you’re living here?
Ami: So I’ve, Marine Engineer training is at HMS Sultan, which is here, so I’ve trained here all of my career, for 20 years I’ve trained. I’ve been in and out. People only, we only see HMS Sultan and you assume that there’s not much else to Gosport and then probably about ten years ago I moved here permanently and bought a house, you know and I got to experience all that Gosport has to offer and, you know, parts of Gosport have really come on and the way that they’ve started to really improve the heritage, I love the Heritage Walk. I like to go and do that on the seafront, follow the chain-link path, from the Submarine Museum all the way round to the Explosion Museum and then across over onto the Dockyard. I do that with family and friends when they come down, or if I’m just after, you know, catching my 10,000 steps. I’ve been down here and I’ve been into the SETT before it shut down but unfortunately I didn’t get to do a full pressurised run but I did get to do the SETT.
Simon: So what did you do when you were at SETT then?
Ami: So …
Simon: You did the training there but not the pressurised?
Ami: You do the training, so you do everything, you do a dry run at the bottom of the big Tank and then you do a partially pressurised run in a escape which is at, sort of towards the top of the Tank and then you also …
Simon: What’s that then, a nine metre, you do the nine metre or?
Ami: No you don’t come out of the Escape Tower.
Simon: OK.
Ami: You basically go into the Escape Tower, you go through the full procedures of getting in, closing the door, plugging into the air system, opening the valve to top the water up to simulate how you would be pressurised to a point but the lid is always open so it’s not fully pressurised but you still, the sense of what would happen as best they can, you know, keeping the risk as low as reasonably practicable and then on the top, you then simulate getting into one of the life rafts so it’s basically done in parts rather than a single escape evolution, that used to be what they were training.
Simon: Yeah.
Ami: I would like to have done it though.
Simon: And have you done the same in Faslane?
Ami: Not yet.
Simon: OK.
Ami: So the new system looks fantastic, are you aware of the new system?
Simon: Yeah, bits and pieces, I mean it seems far more, it’s not lovely warm clear water (laughs).
Ami: Absolutely not, they’ve got thunder and lightning and waves and.
Simon: Yeah.
Ami: Yeah, really good reviews of it though.
Simon: Right.
Ami: Everybody who’s done it has said it’s really difficult and how they imagine it maybe, you know, if they were to have to do that.
Simon: So I interrupted you, took you off sideways on SET. You were talking about Gosport?
Ami: Yeah, so I’ve lived here, I now consider Gosport my home and even when I move to Faslane in August I will keep my house here and treat it like an Airbnb (laughs), where I get to come home, you know, once a month or whatever. I probably will never leave, I love it, I really do.
Simon: And it’s, it’s, what, it’s being by the sea or the community or, what’s the thing that ..?
Ami: The community’s great, and people assume that the community would be a significant Naval community and actually it really isn’t, it’s just the people, the people are lovely, there’s some really good Pubs that play really good live music, there’s some great Restaurants and we’re now improving the Restaurants, there’s some good ones that have opened up, Haslar Marina, Clarence Yard, you know, the Powder Monkey Brewery, there’s, you can see the investment and it’s, the sea, I love the sea. You know, I swim in the sea, I do open water swimming, you know, it’s wonderful to do any kind of exercise, you know, all of the old railway track, I don’t know if you know about the railway track that runs up through and then The Eclipse, you know The Eclipse is fantastic, the bus means that we can now get the bus to Fareham in minutes few. There’s investment in the roads now so you can get in and out quicker, so Gosport really is improving the longer I stay here and my best friend lives about 100 yards round the corner and she’s in the Navy as well but, and that helps, you know.
Simon: Right, yes.
Ami: Yeah, I can’t see me not living here unless I emigrate to the South of France.
Simon: Right (laughs). Well look, thank you very much for your time.
Ami: No problem.
Simon: Is there anything I should have touched on that I haven’t spoken about?
Ami: I don’t think so, I think we’ve sort of touched on everything we’re allowed to talk about.
Simon: OK, well thank you very much, thanks again.
Ami: No, thank you very much.
112 minutes 4 seconds
Interview ends
