Duration: 1 hour 39 minutes 48 Seconds
Simon: My name is Simon Perry and I’m the interviewer today, today being the 15th of March 2022, and I am in Southsea at the moment and I’m with …
Colin: Colin Hamilton
Simon: And Colin, thanks for taking part in the Submariner’s Stories. Can you tell me what you date of birth was and where you were born?
Colin: Pleasure. Yes, I was born on the 1943 in New Brighton which is part of Wallasey. It used to be Cheshire, is now Merseyside, opposite Liverpool Docks. If you look across the Mersey, you can see New Brighton.
Simon: And what was the name of your mother and your father?
Colin: My mother was … my father’s name was Wallace and my mother’s name was Marion. My father’s stepbrother used to play for Everton and Tranmere Rovers, and so there was a lot of sport. My father was very fit. I have two siblings, a sister who is two years older than me and a brother who is three years younger.
Simon: And when were your mum and dad born?
Colin: They were born in 1810.
Simon: Both the same year.
Colin: Yes, both the same year.
Simon: Ok. And whereabouts? They were in the same area were they?
Colin: Yes. Well, my mother has a Welsh mother, my father had a Scottish name, but the Hamilton’s came out of Scotland in the 1600 and set up a Bakery in Wallasey Village, so that’s where they’re both from and they both met at a dance I believe, and they did a lot of sport together.
Simon: And how was home life? Was it …?
Colin: Home was blissful. It was very good of what I can remember, and we lived in an old house initially, then we moved to a newer house that was just being repaired after the bombing, the War. It was almost new when it was bombed with incendiaries and the local people had to put the fire out ‘cos my father who was in the Auxiliary Fire Service couldn’t get away from the Docks because they were fighting fires on the ships there. But that was in Wallasey Village just down the road from the Bakers. Hamilton’s Bakers but also that well know Baker on television, who …
Simon: I don’t know who that is, sorry.
Colin: The chap who does the …anyway, sorry.
Simon: Ok. And what about school? How was school? What were your memories of school?
Colin: I went to the same school until I left at 13. But the Junior School was ok, Infant School. I think I remember I was in the Mowahawk Tribe in the Juniors.
Simon: That’s a sort of House was it?
Colin: Yes they had a House and my uncle who was an artist painted a picture of an Indian on a horse and this was the pride and joy in the classroom. I remember there was no roof on the boy’s toilets, they were all open to all weathers. It was an interesting school. There was a family in Birkenhead with seven girls born and they all went to that school. They were born at the same time. I enjoyed my time at the Infants and Juniors, but I did fail my 11 plus. I was the only one in the class who did. My father died on my ninth birthday and the ambulance arrived and I was having a party and my friends were all made up that something was happening, and he died five days later. I think that may have had an effect on the way I …
Simon: And that was at the age of nine, did you say?
Colin: At nine, yes. Anyway, I failed the 11 plus, I went to Secondary Modern which was a new school down not far from the old school and I enjoyed that, but I don’t remember anything about it. Schooling in the ‘40s and ‘50s was not very stimulating if you happened to go to a Secondary Modern school, so I left early. I was one of the top boys. I left early and went to the Technical College for a year and got a Preliminary National Certificate, which helped, but I don’t have a school leaving certificate because I left too early. But the school was ok, the facilities were good, lots of sport, but I don’t remember much about the lessons.
Simon: You were keen on the sports side were you?
Colin: Yes I was. Rugby mainly. I’ve played a lot of rugby over the years, but it was a good school in those days. Secondary Moderns were … that’s the last ditch. That’s where you went if you failed everything else.
Simon: And then you went from the Technical College, did you go straight into the Navy?
Colin: No. I was 14 when I left Tech College and I was determined to join up as an Artificer, a Technician and it took me two attempts to pass the exam. I did eventually. I came down to Portsmouth, the week that the Vanguard ran aground and nearly knocked the Pub on the corner in 1960. Anyway, I went to the Aptitude Test, showed too much initiative to be an Artificer (laughs) and I didn’t pass. I did that twice but then I decided I had to get a job, so I got a part-time job making picture frames in Birkenhead, opposite where the Vernon girls … you’ve probably never heard of the Vernon girls, but in the ‘50s and ‘60s, they were a pop group of girls. That was good fun, until when one of the lads lost all his fingers on a machine that was cutting up wood for the picture frames.
5 minutes 53 seconds
Simon: Goodness.
Colin: But then in the summer, I got a job at the local circus, which was Wilkie’s Circus and Fun Fair, and I had a job. Initially it was the Waltzer until I stepped too far back, and my Physics Teacher taught me that you don’t stand too near the edge, so I ended up on my backside with the girls laughing at me, so I was put on the ‘Prize Every Time’ string (laughs). I ended up selling ice cream and hotdogs on the beach which is really where I whetted my appetite for submarines, because it was a cold wet summer’s day. I was tipping stale loafs at the seagulls like you do and I saw the Grampus sailed from Birkenhead on her trials. This sleek black ship went out and I was most impressed with that, so I though well if I do join the Navy, that’s what I want to do, join submarines, but I’d been on a submarine as a Wolf Cub in 1955. The Poseidon came into Birkenhead, into Cammell Laird’s. She was tied up alongside, underneath the bows of the Ark Royal. Not the Ark Royal I eventually ended up on, but the Ark Royal that was built in the ‘50s. The Stokers Mess gave us tea or lemonade and chocolate fingers, and we played around, were shown around and left the submarine. Three or four weeks later, she ]Poseidon] was in Portland, loading torpedoes, high test peroxide torpedoes, and there was an explosion and it subsequently killed 12 of them. The Doctor from the Depot Ship went down, and he died as well, so 13 died altogether and there were a lot of casualties and they scrapped, they sank it in Portland. It was a seven-hour boat which was quite tragic.
Simon: Right.
Colin: There are four submarines they’ve lost, and this is explained when they come round the Submarine Museum, they’re listed, of all the submarines that we have lost and the four at the bottom including the one that sank in Dolphin not so very long ago, the Artemis. They are a reminder of … there’s a memorial on the Sea Front that we go to. There’s a ceremony every year for the Affray, which was local sub that went down the other side of the Isle of Wight. Somewhere between the Isle of Wight and the Channel Islands, and we have a commemoration every year. They were all Portsmouth people and Gosport people who died in that submarine.
Simon: So, seeing the submarine from the beach side or the seaside, made you think, ‘that’s the life for me.’
Colin: Yes it was. I’d always wanted to go to sea. I’d thought about the Merchant Navy, thought about applying for a River Pilot, but no I joined the Navy. I went across to Liverpool to the Recruiting Office when I was 16, and they tried to talk me in to becoming a Chef or a Cook, because they were desperate for Cooks. I didn’t want to be a Cook, I wanted to be an Engineer, so I eventually talked them into it and I became a Junior Mechanic Second Class and I joined at 16. I then went down and eventually went in September, we went down to … there were a few of, caught the train down to Plymouth and we were taken to HMS Raleigh, which was the basic training. Which still is the basic training. In fact, that’s where submariners are trained as well now. I did my basic training in Sultan. I joined in August ’60 and left February ’61.
Simon: Where’s Sultan?
Colin: HMS Sultan is in Gosport. It’s the big Engineering School. It used to be the Fleet Air Arm at one time up to 1956, and then it became HMS Sultan Engineering School which it still is. Then when Daedalus closed, which took over the Fleet Air Arm, they broke into Sultan, so Daedalus is part of Sultan.
10 minutes 6 seconds
Simon: So, that was not as a submarine … you weren’t initially a submariner.
Colin: No, you couldn’t join submarines until you’d had experience in General Service.
Simon: How long did you need to have as General Service?
Colin: Two or three years probably.
Simon: What was the reason for that do you think?
Colin: I don’t really know. There was no logic behind it. Nobody could explain it to me which was very disappointing. I’ve taught since as a civilian, I’ve gone back to teaching at HMS Sultan, the submariners who go through there for the training and they go straight into submarines now, and even wear black hats for some peculiar reason.
Simon: I know there’s a controversy about that.
Colin: Yeah there is. You know I have to talk to them, and I can spin my dits to them maybe because I was one of them at one time, but I don’t know why they didn’t allow you to join submarines. Perhaps 16 is a bit young, I don’t know. About the right size and shape for a submariner, a 16-year-old. On the Alliance in the Museum, some of the people can’t believe how people climb into those little beds. I say, “Well we weren’t very big in those days.” But anyway, I finished the course at Sultan, I was top of the class there and as a reward, I was sent to HMS Sultan to do the Junior ICE course, which was the Internal Combustion Engine Course. Most people did steam, I went to do diesel and in February to April I finished the course and then I was given a draft to HMS Chichester, which was an Aircraft Direction Frigate, comparatively new, no air-conditioning on the thing. Slept in a hammock, and it was destined for the Persian Gulf.
Simon: No air-conditioning.
Colin: It was unbearable, but anyway we joined the Chichester, we sailed, and we were involved with the Kuwaiti, the first Kuwaiti kick off when the Iraqi’s decided that they wanted to take over. Kuwait was part of their territory, so they were making plans, which they tried later on. And I went out on the Chichester. We were alongside for two months.
Simon: Which year was this?
Colin: This was ’61. It was an interesting time. I went and saw the opposition. I went out a weekend with the Army and slept in the sand and it was an experience, and we took them out on the jollies around the top end of the Gulf, but once we’d finished that, we sailed, and I went out to the Far East. We were on ship in Hong Kong for quite a long time, which was a super place to be in the ‘60s. A wonderful run ashore. And it’s a diesel Frigate which meant you could get it to sea very quickly, whereas steam you had four hours to raise steam before you could go out. That’s why she was picked. We sailed on Christmas Day. At 5 o’clock Christmas evening, we managed to get half the ship’s company on board sober (laughs) and we went out to rescue a tug that was allegedly in distress in a Force 9 storm. When we got out there, it was a false alarm and we limped back in three days later. A few heads rolled and I played rugby. I was quite a good player, and I was playing rugby on Happy Valley, which is a Base Course now, and we were playing against the Australians, and I was hooking and one of the Australians pulled me out by my leg and twisted my knee so torn my cartilages. Anyway, when I managed to limp and get back onboard and climb into my hammock, in the morning my leg was twice the size, so they were going to off load me in Hong Kong, but they decided as they were sailing back to Singapore, they’d take me there and put me in the British Military Hospital, which they did and I was in between two Ghurkhas who were jolly little chaps. It was quite pleasant in hospital and three days I was there initially and then they moved to another Ward, and I was in there for two weeks. Until I could put weight on my legs, and I went into HMS Terror, which is the Naval Base there. But unfortunately, my pay documents hadn’t been left with me, so I was actually going to be paid … I had to go to a casual, had to get a casual payment every week, so I used to go into the Cinema with a friend, when it finished go round and round up all the empty lemonade bottles and take them back for 10 cents (laughs).
Simon: Casual pay is less then is it?
Colin: Well yes, because they don’t have a record. They don’t know how much they should pay you. It wasn’t very satisfactory but anyway we managed. Singapore was a super place as well. Friends’ opposite, his son is in Singapore and it’s all high rise flats, well you see it on television. It was a really good place, a good run ashore and your money went a long way. Anyway, I did odd jobs and for the Gurkha’s we did an aid to civil power. A group of us had behaved like rioters …
15 minutes 25 seconds
Simon: It’s a practice.
Colin: Yes, in Terror, in the grounds, the soldiers as they were, they’d come towards us, and we’d start throwing bricks and things like that. So, they drew their Kukris (laughs), their old knives and started charging down at us, laughing, as we did, so it was a good time. We also had to do a duty which was wandering around … they had a Japanese submarine in the Harbour by the Base that had sunk, and we had to do rounds at night with a torch and a whistle in pitch black, wandering around in shorts and sandals and stakes and let him have it that tigers came across from the Malayan jungle, swim across, so it was quite an unnerving place. But it was good fun. Eventually I was going to join the ship again, so the RAF flew we back through Gan, which is in the Maldives, and dropped me off at Khormaksar Airport which is in Aden, and I lived in HMS Sheba, which was the Naval Base, and I didn’t have much to do I wandered around the Bazaars and what have you. Did a lot of baby-sitting up there for married couples and then that’s when the troubles started. When Mad Mitch led his soldiers through the … it was a long time ago. There was a lot of shootings. [inaudible] which was the town where most of the married quarters were was called ‘Murder Mile’ because there was a lot of sniping. Anyway, had a good time there. I got friendly with one of the shopkeepers in the Bazaar, when he said, “when your ship comes back, you bring them here, I give them good price” and they were buying watches and goodness knows what, for very, very cheap. It was a good Duty-Free place to shop. Anyway, we re-joined the ship eventually, and we sailed back home to the Suez.
Simon: And the shift from being Surface Fleet to submarines. When did that happen?
Colin: Yes. Well, I had another couple of ships. I had the Berry Head, which was an old Canadian Depot ship that I looked after with a reciprocating engine. Anyway, that was in Chatham. Then I went for a short time with inshore Mine Sweepers. Then I volunteered for submarines, and I joined Dolphin in 1963.
Simon: And what made you decide to volunteer then? Was it that Birkenhead thoughts was it?
Colin: Yes it was, and I was always going to join submarines anyway. Whether it was my sub-conscious, so I joined sub …
Simon: What had you done? Do you literally just say to the people, “Hey look, I want to be in submarines now.”
Colin: Yes. It appears on my record here. It says, ‘volunteered for submarines’ at the bottom.
Simon: And how was the submarine service viewed in those days then?
Colin: It was not as … they weren’t as popular as they are now, if popular is the right word. It was a big service, we used to have lots of submarines, but they kept themselves to themselves. They had the seven Squadrons around the world and if you were lucky to get a nice sunny Squadron, I ended up with Faslane eventually, but it was not popular. Submarines had not been popular despite what people say. I think I was the only volunteer on Orpheus, so nobody would admit to it. Anyway, I joined Dolphin in 1963 …
Simon: And that was as … that was your Base then?
Colin: Yes. I had to do Part 1 and 2 training, and I lived in 12 Mess, which is if you go down through the Harbour, on the right you will see where they used to have the gun, where they used to fire the salutes, and just there, there are some small windows. That was 12 Mess, and you see everything from across. That was super. I got a draft to Orpheus, which was re-fitting in …
Simon: Can I ask you about the time at Dolphin. What were your thoughts of … how was it being with soon to be submariners? What was that shift like?
Colin: It was very militaristic considering submarines and the lax routine they have. Yes, it was quite strict there.
Simon: More than the Navy?
Colin: Yes I think so. It’s certainly more than basic training.
20 minutes 2 seconds
Simon: Why was that? Because of the secrecy, or …?
Colin: I don’t think there was much secrecy then. It was just conventional submarines then. If you were a Stoker, that was a bit of a pain (laughs). The submariners seemed to keep themselves to themselves, ‘cos you couldn’t join submarines, so you were elite when you did eventually get into them, a bit like they are now (laughs).
Simon: And so you did the training there and it felt like you were home.
Colin: Oh yes. Funny thing Part 1 training was basic training, Part 2 training was more detailed and the Class of submarine you were going in to. I got a broad Porpoise Class. The Chief Artificer, who was the Instructor, the first lesson we had was making beer. Now the reason he showed us how to make beer, the recipe was because that was months that the beer became legal to make at home. You couldn’t make beer at home, so he told you where to get the hops and the malt and what have you, but he said, “Don’t make the mistake of getting malt extract with cod liver oil in it because it doesn’t work (laughs), so, anyway we went through it and it was good. I enjoyed that. The problem with training in those days, you had to do all your own drawings, you know a large book and you’d be … so you’d spend most of your time drawing pictures and systems of what have you. Later on, they were printed. You probably learnt more by drawing them than you did later on. But I enjoyed my time training in Dolphin. When I got drafted down to Plymouth, to Orpheus, she was re-fitting, and we were living ashore. I lived at 9 La Morna Place which is just outside St Swithun’s Gate. It was a funny house, a really funny house. I don’t know, they’re probably dead now, but it was most enjoyable, bit of a laugh.
Simon: What do you mean, funny house?
Colin: Well, the house itself was a very nice house, but we had newspaper on the table and a bag of sugar and a bottle of milk. You had to go and empty the bucket they used in the toilet. She was about 23 stone, and he was about 11 stone. It was the typical joke couple. But they were very nice. Jimmy was in gaol, her son, but they were the salt of the earth as they say.
Simon: And you were with other people from the submarine service were you?
Colin: Only another one. They spread us all over the place because we didn’t live in barracks, which I don’t really understand. But we were there for about six months, then I moved into Aggie Weston’s which was a, Agnes Weston, Sailors’ Rest Home. They used to have one in Portsmouth. It was a nice place, bit religious but a nice place and I stayed there until the submarine completed the re-fit. During the re-fit, the submarine was painted with yellow chromate, and it was about the time of the Beatle’s so the Dockyard place said, ”We’ll just hang on for a couple of weeks as a yellow submarine so that people can take photographs” which was you know, ok, we don’t mind. And also, that was a submarine that we fitted the Escape Tower on and because I was the outside wrecker’s mate, which was a sort of second dickie to the Chief who looked after everything other than the Engine Room. He was responsible for supervising this, or was involved, and I was there as a Fire Watcher and what have you and helping, and it was a tower. A small tower in the after ends fitted around the after-Escape Hatch and I was convinced that it was a two man escape and I was told that when they entered the cabin, they had orange suits on, they inflated them and they couldn’t move because it was not big enough.
Simon: When they had two in there.
Colin: Yeah, so it became a one-man escape, and I have here a cutting. This is when … after they had proved it, with a one-man escape, they went out to the Mediterranean and they did a 500-foot escape. Now I volunteered for that, but I was 19 and they wouldn’t let me do it, which is a pity, because I would have loved it. I’ve done the tank …
Simon: So, it’s your handiwork? You were on the team that fitted …
Colin: Well I didn’t do much, but I was involved, yes, and I would have loved to have done it. I talked to somebody who was actually involved in that through the Submarine Association, but then another one of the ‘O’ boats went out the following year and did 600 feet. It’s free ascent, it’s blowing out all the way to the top, you know, when you do the Submarine Escape Tower, or did in those days. So, that was interesting.
Simon: I guess you did, when you were initially at Dolphin, did you do your training in the SETT there?
Colin: Oh yes, I did. I happen to have …
Simon: And what was the experience of …
Colin: It was thrilling. I had a bit of an adventurous child, and … [shows document] yeah, that’s the SETT in my Pay Book.
Simon: That’s 11th May ’63.
Colin: ’63 and then went in and out. You did it every three years but then there’s a gap in the middle where I had to go back to general service. And that’s me on the back end of … up in Scotland. It’s not a very good picture that. I’m sitting on the end of my submarine. It’s a nice coloured one that.
25 minutes 14 seconds
Simon: Right. They give you … they issue the submarine sweater then?
Colin: Yes they do. Onboard the Alliance, they’re actually lashed on with plastic hoops. You can’t get them off, but you can see where people have tried to … you know there are uniforms dotted around.
Simon: I saw that they had them for sale in the shop as well.
Colin: Very expensive (laughs). I mean you didn’t wear it very often because it got dirty.
Simon: It did seem strange that something, particularly in the diesel days, it would seem strange … it’s seems, you know it’s an oily place, to have a light-coloured jumper. What’s the history there?
Colin: I don’t know. That’s what they had during the War, and they kept it going. In fact, a chap I was working with on Sunday at the Museum who was on Arctic. He’d gone up north, it was cold, and he’d gone into the Stores of the Dockyard, and he said, “Have you got any warm clothing for my team” and they got this box out and it was Arctic Patrol 1941, and this was quite recently, and he saw this stuff which included boots and what have you and it’s always been a white sweater. It’s impressive but they do get baggy. But we didn’t wear uniform. I wore my pyjamas. They issued you with pyjamas and I wore them most of the time.
Simon: Because it was warm onboard.
Colin: Well it was cold actually, mostly in the North Sea.
Simon: Why the pyjamas then?
Colin: Well they were just whatever you fancied. Pirate rig they called it (laughs) you wore what you liked . You can’t anymore but you did, you just put whatever you had, whatever came to hand.
Simon: It was about being comfortable and functioning.
Colin: And relaxed. The Skipper would also … I think the Skipper wore his dressing gown most of the time. The Coxswain wort his track suit. You wore whatever was comfortable. They’ve tightened it up since they had washing machines and you could wash onboard, which you couldn’t do in those days. But the Orpheus was a super submarine. Lots of things … we did paint trials, they pained it in stripes and what have you. They painted it black, which was one of the first black …
Simon: To see if you were visible or not.
Colin: Yes. Obviously if you were in the Mediterranean, you need a nice light blue top or … and they did the RAM test which was the reflective rubber on the sides, but by the time we gone up and down the lochs in Scotland, it all fell off.
Simon: Right. Because the cold water?
Colin: Well I don’t think they had an adhesive that was successful enough. But they’ve had a lot of trouble over the years. It’s successful now but that reflects the radar, the sonar theoretically. We did sound trials. We were up in Inveraray. Loch Fyne, near the top end. We anchored on the bottom, and we switched off power, we had power from shore, to see what signatures each of the machines gave, and then we went through a depth charge trial. The depth charge was dropped miles away but it’s quite unnerving even so. Not quite like in the movies when all the lights go out, but we did lots of trials.
Simon: So, what does that feel like having a depth charge?
Colin: Well it … the submarine vibrates but it’s not an experience like you see in, have you ever seen ‘Das Boot’?
Simon: I haven’t, no.
Colin: It’s a fantastic film. Well, it’s not like that. It’s quite gentle really.
Simon: It’s more sort of pressure on the outside of it is it?
Colin: Yes, well you drop three. One either side and one on the top. That’s the theory and then they implode the submarine … it wasn’t a very serious trial. It can’t have been a very serious trial. And we did torpedo trials but while we were up there we visited lots of different ports. Little villages around Lochs. It was very interesting.
Simon: And you can get on and off, or you stayed onboard?
Colin: Oh yes. You anchored out and usually they sent a boat out for you. Inveraray was a good place, a very popular place. That’s where the Duke and Duchess of Argyle were … it’s been on television recently about their behaviour.
Simon: Oh that, right.
Colin: We didn’t know much about that then, and we used to do Campbeltown quite a lot and if you wanted to go to a Ceilidh, a dance, you had to have two bottles of whisky. One for the bouncer and one for you to … (laughs), but they had some super trips. I was very fond of the Orpheus. I did get into trouble because when we were … I took it on myself to go round and make sure everyone was up in time to get back to the submarine, and I was late one day because one of the chaps had gone back early and I was banging on his cabin, and I got back and that happened twice, so that’s first repeated aggravation. Then I was going on the bus, going back to the Loch … we were in Faslane, and the Submarine was due to sail on the Sunday and the bus was late and I was going up on the bus up the Loch as the submarine was going down the Loch and oh, they’re sailing, they’re going on patrol, but I knew they were stopping off at the Isle of Rothesay, so I jumped off and …
Simon: Missed the next bus back.
Colin: I missed it and I got back to Glasgow, and I got the boat across to Wemyss Bay and I just managed to catch the boat, and while I was standing in the Control Room with the First Lieutenant dressed like a penguin, he had his dinner jacket on, and the Coxswain was there in his track suit, I was going to be a second repeated aggravated offence, which was quite serious.
30 minutes 47 seconds
Simon: So, that’s an official dressing down.
Colin: Oh yeah, it was more than that. It could actually have gone to detention for that.
Simon: Goodness.
Colin: Oh yeah, they were quite strict. The First Lieutenant said to the Coxswain, “It’s all awful lot of paperwork involved Coxswain isn’t it? He’s not a bad boy.” He said, “What do you think?” He said, “Oh, case dismissed.” So, the Coxswain filled out the paperwork. We were getting one on one. Rum was one part rum and one part water. Normally you got two in one, but as you don’t carry much water in submarines, they put us up to one and one.
Simon: I learnt that this morning.
Colin: Did you? The Coxswain said, “Don’t think you’re going to get neaters.” He said, “You’re having one and one if you want your tot” so you know, if you were a good lad, you got away with things.
Simon: Yeah, so they had to sort of go through the official process, but tey knew you weren’t a bad …
Colin: I explained to them. It was very much like … sorry, going back a bit, but when I went to join Chichester, the train crashed, the mid-day Scot crashed on its way down to Crewe, and I was on this train and I was 36 hours on the Station and it was snow and it was a dreadful winter, and I couldn’t get anybody to sign the chit to say why I’d missed it, so I went down … I was actually went through the process of seeing the Captain because I was late getting back and I had a newspaper saying there had been a train crash, so they were very strict. I mean I got away with it.
Simon: Even though it was completely out of your hands?
Colin: Oh yes. Much softer now.
Simon: So, was the discipline within the submarine different to the surface ships?
Colin: Very much laxer yes. You did your job to the best of your ability, then nobody could fault you. They did go to excess at times but by and large they were pretty tolerant. I think they still are to a certain extent, but they’re much bigger now with 130 crew and they’re very proud of their uniform and their black hats and their badges and what have you.
Simon: How many on board on the boats you were on initially?
Colin: 65, 70 on the conventional boats. 93 on Warspite and 124 on Polaris on Renown.
Simon: And the shifting from being on a surface ship to being in the submarine. As you said, when you look around Alliance, you can’t help as an outsider to notice that its constricted. So how was that shift being within that metal tube with those people for a set period of time?
Colin: It’s not something most people give much thought for. Claustrophobia hadn’t been invented in those days (laughs). You know, it’s … when you go down to the Submarine Museum, and you go onboard Alliance, they’ve got two doors, back and front and someone said, “Would you shut that door when you dive?” I said, “Well, you don’t have doors on the side, you come down the top” and I said, “if I shut the door, and I close the bow door”, which I’m not supposed to do, it’s very dark and there was a shriek from the back. Somebody was suffering from claustrophobia, so I got the door open quickly. But no, you don’t give it any thought. I mean Polaris went out for eight weeks, nine weeks. You dive in the Clyde; you do your thing, and you surface in the Clyde. You acclimatise yourself. It never really worried me.
Simon: And the difference you have being on diesels and also of the nuclears then, how different did they feel? You are under for longer. Is that the main difference?
Colin: Yes, it does. Conventional submarines can only stay under for a maximum of 36 hours unless they snort. If they put their snort mast up and run the engines, which they need to do to charge the batteries, or surface, then they can stay down quite a lot longer. Well, indefinitely provided the waves don’t come up and come down the exhaust, down the induction hull valve. But diesels are different to nuclear. Very, very different type of submarine.
Simon: How would you summarise the difference?
Colin: Well, diesels submarines are much muckier, they’re much noisier and they are generally colder because you’ve got this … when you’re running on the surface, the engines draw the air down the Control Room, and the water or whatever, sea water, whatever else comes in. It goes through the Control Room, everybody gets soaked in the Control Room and then through, passed the toilets and the Galley, and then into the Engine Room, into the engines and the noise … I think it’s 120 decibels the engine makes so initially they issued you with little rubber ear plugs, and as a consequence they’d drop in the bilges, you wouldn’t find them so you went without. The diesel Frigate, Chichester, had eight 16-cylinder diesel engines. That’s why I have to wear hearing aids because my hearing is shot because of this, and we didn’t take enough … pay enough attention. The first thing you do when you retire, when you go your final meeting, they say, “Have you applied for your hearing aid, or your hearing damage.” I never bothered because it was my own stupid fault mainly, but there is a big difference. Accommodation is different. You have to ‘hot bunk’ in a conventional submarine because you’re carrying more people than there are beds. People are sleeping on sacks of potatoes particularly on the older boats, and it gets a bit crowded. But it’s crappy but happy. They don’t wash. Explaining to the people on Alliance, you don’t wash on a submarine. You can clean your teeth and perhaps wash your hands, but quite often you’re having a competition to see who’s the longest without washing (laughs) but you can’t physically wash. You can’t have a bath, there’s no bath. There are only four toilets on there and two taps. You just can’t wash, so everybody, “Ooh, don’t you smell?” I said, “We’re all the same aren’t we?” You’ve got the smell of bodies, you’ve got the smell of cooking, you’ve got the smell of diesel and also after the toilet tank is full, you blow the tank out and you vent the thing back in. That happens even on the more modern submarine. But it doesn’t matter. At the end of the day, when you get into harbour, quite often you’ll go ashore and live in a Hotel. I’ve stayed in some very nice Hotels around the world, but …
37 minutes 7 seconds
Simon: And is that first shower after being onboard really enjoyable?
Colin: I don’t know. I never really bothered doing without. Don’t tell my wife. ‘Cos you do smell, I mean you really do smell when you stand in the garden and take your clothes off before you are allowed in, but not quite. It’s something that you get used to.
Simon: And the diesel permeates your clothing and …
Colin: Everywhere. When I was a Chief, I did a while on the submarine Grampus, I got a trip on the Grampus to Sweden, Ystad and I went down for an hour in my uniform, and when I came out I stank. My wife said, “You’ve been onboard a submarine” so it does … they do smell. Modern submarines don’t.
Simon: And what was the secret of getting rid of the smell? You were so used to it, it didn’t really matter to you?
Colin: No you didn’t. We were snorting.
Simon: I mean when you came on land, sorry.
Colin: No, I think you went ashore, and you went to your accommodation. If it was Dolphin, you had a Mess up there. You just had a wash and wondered why the girls wouldn’t talk to you when you go to a dance (laughs). But it didn’t matter. You’ve got washing machines, you’ve got unlimited water. The little evaporators that produced water on the conventional submarines used to be broke down so you couldn’t carry much. There’s no stowage space. On the modern ones have washing machines and they have somebody running the washing machines for you and they don’t carry Chinese laundry like the other ships do, but basically you’ve got the facilities to keep clean. Unlimited water, ‘cos you’re evaporating the sea water and separating the salt from the water, which you need for the reactor. So, all in all things are much better, they really are. Perhaps not half the fun but you know, much better conditions.
Simon: And I guess the engineering is significantly different.
Colin: Oh yeah.
Simon: Is it just the nuclear side that is different about it? The propulsion?
Colin: Yes, primarily. I mean it’s difficult to compare because the last of the conventional submarines finished in the ‘70s and when Warspite and Valliant were the first British ones, they technology has moved on a lot, so it’s difficult to compare, but they were certainly … if you watched it on television, they were certainly much more effective now, listening and flowing and sneaking up. Warspite actually came up underneath a Russian submarine. That was comparatively secret until they published it the books and the dockies’ said they were following, and the submarine turned, and they were underneath. The submarine turned and nearly smashed the Conning Tower and the dock when they went in for repairs, the dockies’ said, “I’ve never seen a black ice berg before.” (laughs).
Simon: From the scratching, right.
Colin: So yeah, they’re much more effective now than they were but then so is the opposition, that’s the problem. But that was good, I enjoyed the Orpheus.
Simon: That was diesel still.
40 minutes 17 seconds
Colin: Yes, she was diesel. Then I went and put in for the nuclear submarines, more fool me. But they were early days then. There was only the Dreadnought and …
Simon: Which year was that then?
Colin: 1965. May ’65, and I had to do a Nuclear Propulsion Short Course in Sultan. I have photographs of that, they’re here somewhere. They were a very early Class. Petty Officers and Senior Rates. I was a Leading Hand then, so you did this course, 1965, and NPSC 14 that course, …
Simon: So, you’re a pioneer in those days?
Colin: Yes, very much so. The Valliant and Warspite came out very much the same time. Dreadnought was doing the running, but we were. They do a lot more training then than they do now.
Simon: Is that because you … it’s now become more specialist what people do?
Colin: It has yes, I think for different Class of submarine. The basic reactors are the same I think but it is nearly 50 years since I was joining nuclear submarines. In fact, it’s longer than 50 years, but it has changed. The training has changed. The training here was done in Sultan, basic training. And the actual reactor training which you did when I became a Chief, you had to go up to the north of Scotland, up to Dounreay, which is where they had a Navy Reactor that you could take critical and operate without wrecking things, so this was next to one if the UKAEA Reactors. It’s a separate building…
Simon: That’s Atomic Authority is it?
Colin: Yeah. In fact, I lived … my cabin, you know a sort of Hotel that belonged to the Navy, overlooked at the Old Man of Hoy, you look across to Orkney, and I played rugby for Caithness up there and we flew across to play against the Orkney a couple of times. They came back and that’s the sort of training you did separately which I don’t think they do now. I think they do it in Faslane. I’m not terribly sure what they do up there, but they don’t do the Escape Tower anymore in Dolphin, that’s gone.
Simon: It’s more about … they sort of attach another craft.
Colin: Yes, instead of making the free ascent or whatever, escaping through the hatch, they send out a submersible that drops onto the hatch, and you make a dry ascent. Conventional submarines, to make an escape, it depends on how much air you’ve got. You’re in a small compartment, probably not as long as this, say 16 of you. You’ve got your breathing apparatus, you’re breathing clean air, but you can’t stay down long. On a nuclear submarine, you’re still running your reactor, you’re generating oxygen so therefore you can stay down indefinitely, theoretically, run out of food, so it’s different. At one time, you’d all gather round, you do your escape routine and off you’d go. Now, you wait until you hear somebody up top, and then the submersible arrives on the back of a submarine usually. Off it comes and it drops down onto the hatch, theoretically, as long as it’s nice and upright and not lying on its side, and you make your escape through that, which makes it much more sensible but they offered this to the Kursk that went down, the Russian submarine, but they turned it down because they didn’t want us prowling and everybody died on there. Now whether they were dead when she first went down or whether they could have been saved, but they’ve also done that method with the Russians since. ‘Cos all these submersibles are universal. The fitting. If it’s the wrong size, we can’t …
Simon: That was the thing that I learnt that it seems surprising one that the number of different nations that are trained in Gosport at the SETT, and it seemed to be all inclusive, but what came across was, well, we’re all submariners and it doesn’t matter, we’re all here to support each other no matter what nation it is.
Colin: That’s right, because we trained the Canadians. On Orpheus, we had Canadians, which were paid four times as much as we were, we had Australians …
Simon: That’s a bit galling.
Colin: Yes, it was galling. But they were mostly Scots and Irish these Canadians.
Simon: Right. How did they get onto that then?
Colin: Well, they’d obviously emigrated. It was galling. They were earning a lot more money than we were, but they were very nice chaps and as you say, you know you might spend all your time out there following the enemy and eventually sinking them but you know, they’re doing their job and you’re doing your job so it isn’t quite the same. But it was … yeah, the new escape method … I talk on the submarine when they come onboard, show them how we do escape and Dolphin, the SETT, the Submarine Escape Tower is still there but we don’t have our own Dolphin anymore. That’s probably going to turn into something, it will be flats I think. I don’t quite know what’s happening. We can’t go round there anymore, but it was exciting, and I enjoyed it immensely. You know it’s something you do and you can talk about, if your survive. Actually, there have only been two casualties over 60 years, so there’s no problem there.
45 minutes 33 seconds
Simon: So then you were saying you shifted to the nuclear side. You retrained on the nuclear.
Colin: Yes, I did my Nuclear Propulsion Short Course, and a few other courses. Then I got a draft to Warspite in Barrow, which was … I’d done basic training for that, and I went up … ‘cos she was being built, I moved up to Leading Hand. We got the late train up to Barrow, got in at 3 o’clock in the morning and I was the only person to get off the train, and I looked around and there was a Postman who was collecting the mail and he said, “I know you, you’re scouse Hamilton.” He was on Chichester, he was a wartime Stoker who’d been on Chichester with me, and he was there to meet the train and he said, “Here’s a key to the Crown Inn, John Street. Go down the road, turn right, you’ll see the Pub. You room is the first one up on the left” and off I went. He had a very attractive daughter, ginger haired girl, she was lovely. And he said, “Any of you lads ever go near my daughter …”
Simon: Right, forewarned.
Colin: When I saw him again, he said, “Oh, when are you going to come round for lunch?” (laughs). When I got down to the Pub, at ten past three, it was in full swing.
Simon: AM?
Colin: Oh yeah. It was a little Pub since been pulled down now, a little Pub and there was a Policeman in there behind the Bar, helmet on the … serving drinks you know, and I thought, oh what have I let myself in for? ‘Cos I could never sneak out. You had to go through the Bar to get out of this place. It was a lovely place; the couple were super. You had to sneak out, but you couldn’t because somebody would want to buy you a drink, and then somebody else would want to buy …
Simon: Right. It was always rocking there was it?
Colin: Yeah, but it was good fun, and I was there until June 1966 and it was a very good run ashore, but it wasn’t a very opulent place. I don’t think it still is but it’s in the Lake District, so we did various courses while we were up there. I did a Venture Training Course in snow and ice climbing with one of the Navy team up there who do the rescue of the aircraft, and we went bivouacking on the Cairngorms in the middle of winter and ice climbing and what have you. So that I could take the lads climbing which was really not very practical. If you’re going to ramble through the Lake District, you don’t want to go hacking your way through ice and snow, but it was a super place, and I enjoyed myself and anyway it came to an end when I was selected for the Mechanicians Course which was the Artificers’ Type 2 Year Course at Sultan again. I keep going back to Sultan and the Mechanicians Course which meant at the end of the course I would be the same as an Artificer, so I eventually got to where I wanted to be. Not that I got particularly high marks because I was enjoying myself. It was two years in Sultan, and I met my wife Ann at the end of the course.
Simon: She was just living locally?
Colin: Yes, she was living in Southsea yeah, but she’d gone with a friend to a rugby club social and I met her there and we’ve been married for 54 years (laughs). I played rugby for Gosport and Fareham, and the first team at one time was 14 Sultan players, playing for Fareham and Gosport first team.
Simon: So, that was people being trained, or they were there as Trainers or?
Colin: Oh, mainly trainees but some people who were actually teaching there, the ship’s company.
Simon: I was just thinking about the sort of the solidity of the team. The people sort of going away and coming back.
Colin: Well that’s the problem at Portsmouth. I’ve played for United Services a couple of times, but I could never play for Portsmouth because Portsmouth wouldn’t take on Servicemen. Servicemen let them down. You’re in the team next [inaudible] weekend, so they wouldn’t let you play. Not that I particularly wanted to play for Portsmouth, I was quite happy in Gosport and Fareham. But that was good, and I met Ann and here we are …
Simon: So, she … I’m interested in that people who marry a submariner and because it seems like a certainly unconventional life as far as a normal family wave. You know you’re away for long periods of time whereas … I guess but that’s Services though probably isn’t it?
50 minutes 4 seconds
Colin: You are in all Services. The Navy … most of the Navy personnel buy houses much more than the Army or the Air Force because they are not as transient. They actually settle until they sell all the Married Quarters off in Gosport, so we bought this house. I think we paid £6,800 for it in 1971 …
Simon: In the golden days.
Colin: … and life was good because we could afford it on my submarine pay, although the interest rate was 8 ½ percent, something ludicrous, but nevertheless we could afford it. I’m quite happy ‘cos my parents, I lived with them when the kids were born, you know it was a big family house which was fine. But she’s married a serviceman, her dad had been … or her uncle had been in the Army. I think they have to know what to expect. If you hear a wife saying, “Well, you know you are away” , “Well, that’s life dear.” You know, that’s the thing, and we accepted it. It was never any problem. Never any problem apart from the family grams that you get sent saying, “I’ve bought a house.” (laughs).
Simon: Yes. Do you know if she knew that they were being read before they were being delivered?
Colin: Oh yes.
Simon: So everyone’s conscious of that.
Colin: They are. There must be at least half a dozen people at least read them. If you said you were going to get a family gram every week, if you didn’t get one then somebody from the off crew would go round and say, “Is there any problem, why haven’t you … because your husband’s at sea worrying about not getting a family gram?” So, you had to think of that. For God’s sake, send me anything, but quite often they’d have codes. They got crafty; they have codes. Most of them didn’t make sense (laughs) and we were just straightforward. I’ve got nothing hide.
Simon: So, hidden words that meant different meanings but perhaps if you read it as a sentence, didn’t make any sense at all.
Colin: Yes, that’s right. So, it was silly really. Thirty words, you know, what can you say in thirty words and it’s still the same I think. They can’t send anything, you can only receive, which was fine. I didn’t have to write any letters (laughs).
Simon: Right. But the arrival of that was an important event for you.
Colin: Oh it was, it was, yes, and if you didn’t get one, you’d think ‘Oh my God, what’s happened?’
Simon: So, you figured something bad had happened and it had been censored.
Colin: You were initially asked, if there was bad news, would you want it straight away or would you want it 24 hours before the submarine got back or would you want it when the submarine is alongside. Well, if you had just sailed and then your wife and kids were killed in a car crash two days out, you won’t surface, and they won’t come back. That’s it, so what’s the point of hearing then? You know, let somebody else pay for the funeral and worry about it two months later.
Simon: They gave you that option? That’s interesting.
Colin: Oh yes, I don’t know if they do now, but they did. It’s up to the Captain. The Captain’s not going to say, “We’ll have a chap on here seven and a half weeks whose pining for his family who have just been killed.” You know, is he going to do something that’s going to make us go back in, so I think he probably would have left it until 24 hours before.
Simon: So of course the most important thing is having harmony within the crew. You can’t have somebody who’s out of sorts because the whole thing becomes then unstable I guess.
Colin: That’s right. I’ve never known and of these submarines to come in for any reason. I’m sure perhaps they have because they wouldn’t tell you if they had, but it’s something you accepted. I think it would be more worried … my wife if she got a message, I don’t know when she would get a message to say that the submarine has sunk and that all hands are lost or what have you, so you really didn’t think about it, you didn’t dwell on it because its one of those things that’s unavoidable. So be it. I didn’t do much thinking when I was at sea. Apart from trying to pass the OU Degree.
Simon: So, you’re nickname onboard was …?
Colin: Scouse, because I come from near Liverpool. I come from Cheshire. I probably had a more pronounced accent than I … ‘talk like that’ [in a scouse accent] but everybody had a nickname. They dropped it later on, but I didn’t object to it. That’s where I came from and that’s … I’ve been down here much longer that I lived up there. I thoroughly enjoyed my time in submarines, because we had submarines that, apart from the Polaris, I mean I’ve got a photograph here of me somewhere …yeah, there. This is when we were doing … that’s on Renown when we were doing trials, doing CO2 trials. CO2 was taken in and I was giving blood every four days, to see what the blood content was with oxygen and carbon dioxide, but behind here is one of the missile tubes (laughs). You used to walk past those daily, a dozen times going back to the back aft and that where the Wren … the women sailors live now in a makeshift accommodation, but that’s one of the missiles. I never thought of that, not that you’ll learn much from that anyway.
55 minutes 26 seconds
Simon: So, when you shifted to Polaris, what was that experience like? Did it feel any different knowing what you had onboard?
Colin: It was different. ‘Cos I hadn’t been to sea on Warspite, ‘cos I left her before she was completed, it was definitely different. I mean it never bothered me being in the dark. I’d spent quite a lot of time crawling through dark dingy tanks.
Simon: What do you mean in the dark?
Colin: Well you know, with false lighting and especially at night when … especially on conventional boats, they go into red lighting so that the Captain doesn’t lose his night vision, so you’re bumbling around in this red light, all the other lights are off so it can be quite unnerving in the dark, especially if the submarine is pitching. There’s no windows, but there aren’t many windows on modern ships.
Simon: That’s what’s been said to me, yeah.
Colin: I mean modern ships have port holes. On the Ark Royal, they were building, and the Met Officer came down. He said, “I’ve got all these gadgets in here but what I would like is a port hole so I could see what the weather’s like.” Storky said to him. “I’ll put bloody nail over it and hang some seaweed on it if you’d like.” (laughs). He didn’t get his window. But you’re down there and you just acclimatise. I mean people come down to the Alliance again and they say, “How many decks are there?” I say, “One, there’s only one deck. You’re not going to get lost.” They say, “Well where do you put all your stuff.” I say, “Well it’s all stacked everywhere. It’s something …” “How can you manage? The ones on the television have three or four decks.” I say, “Yes, and people get lost on there. They’re big ships, much bigger than this.” So, they are, and you’ve got your own bunk and the Mess Deck as well.
Simon: So it’s not hot bunking on there?
Colin: Oh no. Very rarely. We took Flag Officer Submarines to sea. Must have been Warspite I suppose, and he slept on the torpedo racks. That’s where they put the extras. Normally the Captain might have given his cabin up for the Flag Officer of Submarines, but he didn’t. He insisted on sleeping, you know, not inconveniencing anybody, so he slept in the fore ends with the lads, the extras, the trainees. They were proper bunks but they were actually on the racks of the torpedoes. So, all in all, people know their place. So, life was much more comfortable, but they don’t get trips like the Warspite anymore. They don’t go out to the Far East and visit the Seychelles and the Maldives and Mombasa and all these places we went to. Philippines, see the big Bay.
Simon: What was the reason to be down in those areas then?
Colin: Showing the flag partly it was in the ‘70s. We were also off Vietnam, not that it was ever spoken, we were not far from Vietnam, when the Yanks capitulated. Now whether we would have gone in and taken people off I don’t know, that’s just hearsay, but you know we were around. But it was mainly to show the flag and to exercise with the Americans and with the Japanese. I don’t really know. You don’t query everything, you just run ashore. I mean I’ve been to Japan, just after the War. On Chichester we went in. That was in 1961, which was long after the war. Climbed Fujiyama, did lots of wonderful things, lived in a Hotel and wore the old kimono, and the people were very friendly, and it was very difficult to you know, well, you’ve just been slaughtering our soldiers and what have you. But we were exercising with them and they’re very competent sailors, the Japanese. So, where were we? Oh yes.
Simon: So, that was sort of a little PR as you were saying and maybe other reasons as well, but then Polaris, that was much more to do with the Russian side was it, the Cold War?
Colin: Yes, you are remaining undetected. They transferred the responsibility for nuclear weapons from the RAF who couldn’t stay up there forever, to submarines who could stay down there, and that’s what happened. They were going to build five, but I think Harold Wilson cancelled one ‘cos they wanted to … there were all kinds of problems getting them built because of the technology and what have you, so he said, “We need some.”
Simon: It wasn’t as proven or wasn’t as effective as it was hoped to be then?
Colin: It was, we could have done with five because you know … you’re pushing it to get one out there on station. Ever since 1969, there’s always been a nuclear submarine on patrol, legend has it. Now when you’re talking about it, when you go back in, after your eight weeks and you go to Coulport, which is the other side of the peninsula where you offload the missiles and change some of them, and then four days later you go on leave and the starboard crew take over. Quite often the starboard crew arrive and accuse, “You haven’t been anywhere, you’ve been sitting on the bottom alongside Coulport, not like my husband.” It was very strange you know, because they could probably see it if they decided to go over to Coulport. But then there’s always a bit of a rivalry between the two crews.
60 minutes
Simon: So, talking about rivalry or comradeship, within the submarine, how was that … what’s the feeling, the closeness, the brotherhood if you like of submariners?
Colin: Oh everybody got on. I mean you had to, especially on conventional submarines, there was nowhere you could go for a fight. I mean I’ve seen a bit of friction but very, very rarely fisticuffs. And even in the nuclear submarines were very much the same. People did get on, it was a brotherhood, you know, the brethren of submariners who stick, you know, whatever their disagreement they would thick and thin they would stick with you. I never ever saw any friction.
Simon: Someone was there to sort of calm things down before it boiled over.
Colin: Yes, there was. All the compartments were manned at some time or other. There was one incident that there was hanky-panky with one crew with one of the wives. There was a Drumfork Club which was the Married Club just outside Faslane, and they stopped all unattached sailors going to this Club but that was just sort of … I don’t know, hearsay more than anything. But no friction at all, no friction. The best of pals. I’ve never been in a fight in my life and certainly not in a submarine. You know, I get on with everybody.
Simon: Because you rely on each other.
Colin: Yes, you do.
Simon: And if someone, you know, falls down, that’s a dent on the effectiveness of the craft I guess?
Colin: Oh it is because everybody has at least two jobs on there, at least two jobs. If you’re not capable of doing your job which is probably why I got into trouble for being late for the submarine sailing. Who was doing my job? Yeah I think that’s important. I’m sure the General Service … my time in General Service everybody has one or two jobs, but they still relay on everybody.
Simon: So, after Polaris, what was the …?
Colin: Oh I wanted to go back to Warspite for some reason. I wanted, I remembered the jollies I had on her, so I did my three trips, I won my badge, my Polaris badge …
Simon: You do a specific badge do you for that?
Colin: Yes. There’s one there, I’ll show you …
Simon: Ok.
Colin: Yes, they do one for submarine, for Polaris which the other submariners … you get your submarine badge and then they give you another one for Polaris. I think one to ten patrols you get a pewter one which I’ve got, 10 – 20 you get a silver one, and over 20 trips you get a gold one. I’ve only seen one person with a gold one, but Ron was on Polaris or whatever and he’s got a silver one, so he’s done at least 10 patrols. I’m quite happy with my pewter one (laughs). Joining Warspite again as a Chief, more responsibility, I had to go and do the Senior Nuclear Operators Course up in Faslane, and … sorry, up in Dounreay, and a lot more responsibility doing the Pipe Repair Course in case there was an accident.
Simon: That’s cooling pipes for the reactor?
Colin: The reactor, special stainless steel, which was also done in Sultan, while you’re doing your … with this Inconel and different types of metal. It was only a temporary repair, and as soon as you got in they would have cut it out. Thank God I didn’t have to go down to the Reactor Compartment for that.
Simon: And that’s radioactive water passing through those?
Colin: Oh yes, it is, yes.
Simon: So, you’re just going in with your hands, you’ve got to be covered up.
Colin: Oh yea, top to toe. I never went … I’d been in the reactor to shut it down and flash it up. Massive pressures down there and what have you but you go down with a Quartz Fibre Dosimeter and measure the amount of radiation which is very slight. And of course, you’re a classified radiation worker so therefore you keep a record. In fact, there’s less radiation down there than there is where we are now. But I did these courses. It was an interesting course ‘cos I made a pair of car ramps.
65 minutes 8 seconds
Simon: Because what?
Colin: I built some car ramps, and they were so big, I couldn’t get them in the boot of the car so I had to run up and down them a few times to make ‘em look old and put them on the roof rack and drive out past the limit. They’ll find out about that now (laughs). But it was a very interesting. They had specialists who spent a year training to do a proper job, but yeah, it was interesting. Having done that, …
Simon: Do you mind if I just ask about the shift from … your knowledge on diesels to the shift of knowledge on nuclear, was it just like putting a new engine in? I mean you obviously need to understand the engineering of it.
Colin: You have the basic systems there, the auxiliary systems, ‘cos you had on nuclear submarines, when I was a Petty Officer and as a Chief, I was looking after the turbo generators that produced electricity which they have on steam ships. ‘Cos I’d had a steam ship before, I didn’t find it any problem but dealing with steam and if you’ve only done diesel before, it would be a big problem. But basically …
Simon: It’s a big steam engine, the nuclear ones.
Colin: Yes it is, with wet steam. It’s not very good quality steam which causes problems, but the other auxiliary machines that generate electricity. I mean Warspite had a bad fire in Liverpool. Luckily I’d left it by then. My team actually fought the fire, and they nearly lost the boat because it was so serious, but it was one of the diesels. One of the diesels was leaking, which is something that … the diesel engines were built against the bulkhead, and you couldn’t get round the back anyway. They all got mentioned in dispatches and what have you ‘cos they saved the submarine. Blue watch. Yeah, it is different on there, a different system. You know you’ve gone back to steam, but its steam generated by a nuclear reactor, and you had to do all the principles. When you’re operating the reactor, you work your way up to do that and it’s got to be taken up in steps and you’ve got to follow a curve and after it’s been running a while it develops a poison that starts to … you know it’s quite involved. And of course, if you’re comparing this with a Power Station, because quite oa few of the submariners who were trained in the nuclear have got jobs at Power Stations and will probably be even more now that they’ve got used to these little ones. You’ve got to know the ins and outs of what you’re doing, it really is quite specialist. You’ve got to have the confidence to pull those rods or drop ‘em in or what have you, so it is different. I was the Automatic Controls Chief, and everything was done by pneumatic air. It’s all electronic now and it’s totally different. The operating systems for opening valves and what have you used to be a puff of air but not it’s all electronics, which makes it … it’s fine but in a damp steamy atmosphere like it is, they’re not quite so successful. My air wasn’t very good either, but … the technology is completely different, but it’s similar, if you know what I mean. That steam experience you could manage, but very few submariners had because they’d gone from diesel. Also, water chemistry. You had to be able to do water chemistry to see what the reactor was performing or whether there was anything in there and one of my jobs was adding hydrogen to the loop. Hydrogen scavenged any oxygen that was actually in the primary loop. You had a big orange bottle that … no smoking for 14 hours in the submarine ‘cos they could smoke then, they can’t now, so I had to stop everybody smoking whilst I put this hydrogen into the loop which was another one of those strange jobs.
Simon: The loop being …
Colin: Oh, the reactor loop. The water went through the reactor core. There was one chap, they had a leak. When he was doing testing for water he got a leak ‘cos you’re taking very high-pressure water. He got a leak, and it went into a cut and the Medic onboard had to scrub this cut with a nail brush, you deep in until it was bleeding, to make sure that he got it out, so you had to be very, very careful. It was dodgy stuff, the primary water. But, you know, I’m still here to tell the tale (laughs). When we were in Hong Kong, on Warspite, we’d done a trip … we got out there and I was doing a Fleet Board for my Charge Chief. That’s the next higher rate and the submarine was anchored out five miles in the Bay because they wouldn’t let it go alongside. They only let submarines go alongside if they were reactive. Radioactivity, unless you sneak in and don’t tell them, but anyway, the Commander who took my Fleet Board had been my Boss on Warspite in build and this was sort of 10, 15 years later, and there he was. So, I took my Fleet Board and I passed that. I was now a Chief Mechanician, which was the highest you could get at the time, and I realised that I wasn’t going to be promoted anymore. There was no way I could go. I wasn’t going to get a commission, so I thought, I’ve done my bit in submarines, you know I’ve enjoyed it, but I think I’ll give General Service a try. So, I did my time, and I came back, ‘cos I think you had to do five years …
71 minutes 2 seconds
Simon: Five years on the submarines?
Colin: Yeah, but that was after the break, so I’d done 12 altogether, but then I came off as a Chief Mech and I went to Sultan. I got an award from Sultan.
Simon: Can’t keep away from the place.
Colin: I got an award in Sultan, when they invited all the Captains back from Sultan from since when she opened in 1956 ‘til then which was about 40 or 50 years, all the old Captains and I was awarded a big crest as the longest serving member of HMS Sultan ‘cos I’d been there 1960 ‘till 2017, on and off. But anyway, I went back to Sultan, and they didn’t know what to do with me so they said, “Ah, Foreign Navies, we’ll put you in the Foreign Navies, so [inaudible] Nigerians. You can cope with strangers” but while I was there, I …
Simon: So, what does that mean, Foreign Navies then? Teaching Foreign Navies?
Colin: Yeah, teaching Foreign Navies. Albanians Iraqis I taught, Iranians, I’ve taught Bolivians …
Simon: And that was submariner stuff or that was …?
Colin: Not so much submariner, no general. I did some submariners but general teaching. It was ok, I didn’t mind that, it was quite interesting. And I posed a question to my class, “Anymore questions?” “Why do you call orange jam marmalade?” so I thought well, I don’t know (laughs). But anyway, I quite enjoyed that, then a signal came through to the office. One old boy was enjoying, the wily Old Chief, was in during the War and he was an old dog and they said, “Don’t volunteer for that for God’s sake. You never know … can you play the piano Chief? Well, shift the thing.” You know, you don’t volunteer in the Services.
Simon: I don’t get that …
Colin: Oh, if you can play the piano, you can push it across the way because we want it moved. If you want a piano moved, you just say, “We want that moved, can you play the piano? Right, lift it up and move it across.” But this was Exercise Calypso Hop. He said, “Don’t fall for that silly game.” I said, “Well it sounds quite interesting” so I volunteered for it, and I got a signal back saying, “Would you come in for an interview” and it was an exchange to Jamaica for eight weeks to go out with the Royal Welsh Fusiliers and the SAS Intelligence Corps and two Leading sailors and me, and we went out to Jamaica for eight weeks. The day after we got out to Jamaica, a state of emergency was declared, where they were shooting … it got very political in ’75, 76, very political out there, quite dangerous. The Pound halved but the Army made our salary up which the Navy wouldn’t have done, and we had to go escorted wherever we went. Now I was based in the Army Mess, the 1st Jamaican Regiment Army Mess, the Sergeant’s Mess, in Kingston and I had to right the way around, it was about 15 miles to Port Royal which was where the pirates used to live, and I was teaching HMJS Cagway which was their Navy Base. I was teaching them about diesels. They had a problem. They kept choking up their diesels and when I got out there I said, “Well, why are you running your diesels? Why don’t you plug them into the shore supply?” “Well, the shore supply is broken.” I said, “Well that’s irresponsible. You’re running a refrigerator on a generator.” I said, “No wonder the things get choked up.” Anyway, I taught them about these Mercedes Maybach engines they they’d been driving around, and they had a whole harbour full of boats that they’d confiscated for drug running and whatever and all the Officers seemed to have picked a boat, and they used to do a trip around … I taught from 9 to 10 and then they had about three hours off when they went off to the NAAFI to drink 100 proof rum. But anyway, I was trying to do my best. Every week, one of the Officers would take a boat out and they’d go round the Island, you know, doing a patrol. They even went over to Montego Bay, you know to the US Army Prison, but they’d stop off at their favourite ports. I did it once and of course you go past Trevor whatshisname’s house, you know all these famous houses where people used to live out there, but they always stopped off at their favourite port of call for the night which was obviously a girlfriend or whatever and went round to Montego Bay and then we’d come back round and that was interesting. And then we had a weekend in Montego Bay, flew across the Island in an Auster spotter plane or some little plane but when it went over certain part, the turbulence was horrendous, and we just about made it. All these little things that have happened as a result of you being in the Service.
76 minutes 7 seconds
Simon: So that showed it was worthwhile volunteering.
Colin: Oh it was, I always volunteered for everything, irrespective. And I was good, I had a trip ashore with the SAS. First of all, the SAS lived in the mountains. They’d come down for provisions every week and then they’d go off and wouldn’t speak to you. Anyway, they came down, picked a fight with the Intelligence Corps in the Mess. Eventually they warmed the matelots and we got on very well with them and they were showing me all these different grips that they practiced. They’re dangerous people to go ashore with, drinking 100 proof rum, but it was good fun. When I was in the Barracks of the Royal Welsh Fusiliers, ‘cos everybody’s a number there, not name because there might be 16 Williams’s. “Have you seen number 33?” “Yes, he’s over there with 67.” Everywhere I went they saluted me ‘cos I had a peaked cap on. “I’m a Chief, not an Officer” so I enjoyed that. Anyway, I went back to Sultan, I carried on teaching and then I thought it’s time I went to sea again, so I volunteered or was asked to go on Intrepid, which was a big landing craft that carried four landing crafts and four troop landing crafts on the side, and that was good. I enjoyed that and I was promoted on there to Warrant Officer or Fleet Chief as we were called and I was the youngest in the Navy at the time, which was quite something. I was a Fleet Chief Mechanician, and I enjoyed that. That was different, but that was steam and I took charge of the boilers and took the thing to sea and brought it back again and I was Boats Officer and then I became Landing Craft Officer in charge of the big Landing Craft that floated out the back, which is why I can talk without the ones I going to tomorrow. And that was good, that was different because we had a cabin. They’d just introduced the Fleet Chief rate and were a bit reluctant to give us a Officer’s cabin, so we got a four berth cabin, which was the Pilot’s cabin which was ok, it was a start. That was a good ship, lots of good trips ‘cos you took the Midshipmen around. Went to the West Indies and all the way up the East coast of the States, stopping off. Then we up to Norway with the Marines and I went ashore with them, and they bivouacked in the snow while I slept onboard. That was great fun. You saw lots more stuff on the Intrepid then, and then we went out into the Mediterranean. Then we picked up the Dutch Marines and brought them back to Scotland to find a mountain because there are not too many mountains in Holland, so all in all that was good fun, and I was the President of the Mess and we had a nice big Mess on there. We had lots of parties and we went out to the Mediterranean. We had a do in Istanbul and nearly set fire to the quarterdeck awning, so all in all that was good fun, I enjoyed that.
Simon: What was the nearly setting fire bit?
Colin: Well, we were having a Barbecue for the local Brits on the quarterdeck and the wind shifted and we had canvas awnings up to keep the sun off, and some of the ashes caught on the top there. But they showed us around, that was good. Istanbul was good, so we did some good trips on the Intrepid. I know we’ve left submarines now, but I do miss them. And then I went back to Sultan, and I was asked to become President of the Warrant Officers Senior Rates Mess, there was 400 of them, and I was a bit young to do it but I took it on because nobody else did.
Simon: Self volunteering again.
Colin: That’s right. I volunteered and when I … I was talking the other day, the Captain wants to be President of that. “Oh, he’s asked you as well has he?” (laughs). He said, “He’s asked six of us and you’re the mug, you’re the seventh, taking the job on.” Anyway, I did that for a year, that was ok, but while I was doing that …
80 minutes 4 seconds
Simon: What does that mean then? You organised the parties and …
Colin: Yes, well in charge. Make sure they do it properly. I had a team, but I was just in overall charge of the Senior Rates, Petty Officers, Warrant Officers or Chiefs as they were. My name was up on the board. I did 1980 and ’81, that’s right. So, then I was given another job, External Feedback Officer, which meant I had to go round the ships in the Fleet in the UK, interviewing the Engineer Officers about the training their people were getting, which was super. Just hired a car and went of to Newcastle or Liverpool or whatever for a week, interviewed them and fed that information back to Sultan, completing the loop. You had to say he thought this was a good course or he would have liked to have included this or that Instructor was a waste of time. But I also fed it to the Commander in Fleet in Northwood, so we’d go up there once a term to talk to the Admiral about the training in Sultan. It was a good job, lots of good reports on that. Then, I was given a choice. I was a Warrant Officer then, no a Fleet Chief still, and I was given a choice. He said, “Right” my appointee said, “You can have the either the Ark Royal or the Royal Yacht.” Well, I’ve been on the Royal Yacht and it’s a bit squalid (laughs). I said, “It’s a lovely Ship’s Company, it’s an old ship. It’s a ship that has a problem, despite the fact that everyone wanted to keep it, you have to have a separate tanker, with furnished fuel oil on for their boilers, when every other ship in the Fleet is gas turbine, or it uses diesel, so it’s a complete white elephant really. It’s a Hospital Ship, but I don’t think we ever used it. It was in Aden doing some evacuations there, but I don’t think it’s ever been used as a proper ambulance type vessel. You know, it’s a super ship but it the Messes were awful, terribly crowded. And of course, if the Queen was around, or anybody onboard, you had to dress up properly and even down below you wore plimsoles that had to be whitened and you wore white overalls … so I thought well the Ark Royal sounds better. That’s three years in building in Newcastle and you know, a couple of years running it.
Simon: And Ark Royal was a …
Colin: Ark Royal was the brand-new Ark Royal that was scrapped not so long ago.
Simon: And that was the … oh, excuse me, my brain has gone blank. The aircraft carrier.
Colin: Yeah, the third aircraft carrier. There was Invincible, there was Ark Royal was the third one. What was the second one? I had the second one at the end. I was my last ship. The Illustrious. Invincible and Illustrious and Ark Royal. Now Ark Royal was going to be called Indomitable, but they’d already had Ark Royal, and Ark Royal was a popular name so they kept it, and it was a bit of a prestigious ship. I loved being up in Newcastle, it was great. My wife came to see me occasionally, you know, and the kids, but that was good, being involved in the build. We didn’t go to the Falklands obviously because we weren’t finished, although I was called back to join the Intrepid, but a chap was already on there. So anyway, we built it, did all the trials, went out to sea and of course as we were prestigious, went over to the States for the Centenary celebrations for the Statue of Liberty. My job was standing next to the Captain and advising him on the engine, up in the Bridge, and the engine configuration and what have you. We were behind this French Frigate as we went in line into New York Harbour, and he said, “What are we stuck behind this French ship for?” and I said, “Well, isn’t that our normal position chasing them” (laughs), so, that was good, and we went on some lovely trips. Ark Royal, everywhere we went …
Simon: So, not just involved with the building of it, but then commissioning and …
Colin: Oh no, commissioning and then trials and did 18 months with the Ship’s Company. That was interesting.
Simon: But doing that a Ship’s Company means you’re then on a … mission isn’t the right word, what’s the right word?
Colin: Well on a proper commission, the proper running of the Ark Royal. Yes, it was a good time on there, but it was the Fleet ship. It was the one that they paraded everywhere, and I’d gone in to London and bought an engraving machine for the Ark, because we knew we couldn’t do all these posh trips in the States, Casper Weinberger and a lot of the dignitaries in America have my engravings on their walls so that’s good. Then, I got a draft to go back to Sultan, general dogsbody, and the Appointer asked me to take over Illustrious, which was going into reserve. I’d asked by then to leave the Navy ‘cos I was completing my Open University Degree and I was doing training and Illustrious …
85 minutes 21 seconds
Simon: You were saying that’s 10 years of study to get the OU degree.
Colin: Oh yes, to get the degree, Most people do it in three or four. I’d done it by then.
Simon: But I mean you had a hyper-demanding job as well.
Colin: Well, you’ve just got to get on with it. So, I knew Illustrious was going into the Dockyard for two or three years to be laid up, but she had one last trip to Hamburg which was the very first trip I had on my training ship Raleigh was Hamburg, but at 16 and down the Reeperbahn, I’d been on shillings ten for the salary, you know you can’t afford to do anything. It was good to see, and we went into Hamburg, but we had to do an engine change going down the Elba. I said, “Well we’re going back at the end of the week, we’re going back to Portsmouth to lay up.” “Well, we might be called off to do something” so we had to do an engine change.
Simon: What does an engine change … it doesn’t mean literally swopping an engine out?
Colin: Oh yes, we carried spare gas turbines like they have … they’re Olympus Gas Turbines like they have on aircraft, and they keep them in a pod up in the ceiling and if you have to change them …
Simon: Right, I mean if you’re in the middle of a battle or whatever, you can’t just say, “Hold on a sec, “
Colin: “I’ve got to change the engine” yeah ‘cos there are four of them, two on each shaft, but they have two spare. Luckily my team, the few Leading Hands I had, had had these classes of ship before so they knew what to do, so I made the tea while they got on with the job (laughs), but this was actually going down the Elba to Hamburg. But we got it done so we could get ashore and then when we were coming out, we were stopped by Greenpeace. They tried to board us and throw things at us and God knows what, but we just pushed our way through. Went back to Portsmouth.
Simon: What was their …. It was just their idea that they were against the idea of a warship full stop.
Colin: Yes, that’s right, they were. And perhaps they thought we had a nuclear weapon onboard.
Simon: Right. You wouldn’t have one on an aircraft carrier would you?
Colin: Well they have aircraft and helicopters. I don’t know whether they … I honestly don’t know whether they did or not. There are lots of things I deliberately don’t know, but anyway they objected to everything Greenpeace. We came back, went into Dry Dock and I stayed on there for another year doing my PTCE, Post Graduate in Physics and Technology, whilst teaching in City Portsmouth Boys School. I’d got a job. I’d go into the Office in the Dock Yard in the morning, do an hour or two, then go up to school to teach, then come back in the evening.
Simon: Whereabouts is that one then? It’s now the Grammar School?
Colin: No, no. It’s the one at the top end of Portsmouth, on the left as you go out. It was the Builder’s School at one time. It’s an Academy now, they all are, but it was all boys school, and I went there to teach Physics initially, and I taught there for three years and I was quite successful as a Physics teacher. Then, somebody decided that oh yeah, you’re a science teacher so you’ll teach Biology and Chemistry as well.
Simon: Quite different.
Colin: I don’t have a GCSE in Biology and Chemistry. They said, “Well you’d better learn hadn’t you?” so you had all these 30 boys, hacking sheep’s eyeballs up with black gunk and flicking it all around and the heart that stinks to high heaven, a cow’s heart. You know, it just wasn’t me (laughs). I was happy with Physics, but not with Biology and Chemistry. Anyway, we muddled through, and I did nine years. Then a job came up at Sultan and back to Gosport again. A job in Sultan as a Civilian Instructor, and I spent 17 years teaching submariners, air engineers …
Simon: So, when you say a Civilian Instructor, you weren’t MOD, you were external contractor.
Colin: I was working for Flag Ship as they were called, and then Babcock eventually. Yes, civilian. I joined MOD as an Instructor but that was only for three months and then they changed me over to this one. It was ok, to start with but it got a bit stale, the classes got bigger, and the paperwork got a bit out of hand, but I ran one of the Laboratories and all the greatest technology, you know, magic boards that I managed getting all these Generals and Admirals coming in to see.
Simon: What were the magic boards then?
Colin: Well there are white boards where you can move pictures around and the projector shines on it and what have you, rather than a blackboard or a whiteboard, which was quite impressive. And I also did Material Science as well. I knew not a thing about Material Science to start with. I used to heat metal up and bend metal and look at the format when you actually bend a different type of metal ore. That was interesting. I taught that to the Air Engineers mainly, so that was good. I had lots of variety, but I was in my early 70s I was getting a bit stale (laughs) but I kept leaving and going back. They’d give me a Presentation and I’d go and come back.
90 minutes 28 seconds
Simon: You got addicted to the Presentations.
Colin: Yes I actually did. I miss it terribly. I’d loved to have gone back, but there comes a point when you … I went back the second time and they kept charging me with … they kept taxing me and I said, “Look, I’m over 65, you don’t tax me anymore.” “Oh, I don’t know about that.” ‘Cos nobody was over 65 that they’d dealt with. Well, they apologised and gave me all the money back.
Simon: You got a good lump sum.
Colin: So, that’s the sort of thing you’re dealing with civilians. But I loved it, I really did and I would recommend the Service to anybody. The chap over the road comes over to see me occasionally and I’ve given him slides and videos on submarines, so I think … he’s six foot four that’s the only problem (laughs). I said, “You’ll be alright in a nuclear submarine .” But it was good.
Simon: How was … so the life in the Service and the life in civvy street. How was that conversion, what did it feel like?
Colin: It was quite a bit different ‘cos we were an entity … when I was a civvy, we kept ourselves to ourselves basically, got on with the work. We were all ex-Service, so they didn’t bother, they just let us get on. We weren’t as cliquey I don’t think, and they kept too many changes coming from higher up, you know, and didn’t really like that. And then, you know, they said “I want you to go and design an air engineering course.” “But I’m a Marine NCO.” “Doesn’t matter, you’re in the job.” Anyway, I did, and I presented this course and the Air Engineers said, “That’s far too difficult for my men.” I said, “Well that’s exactly out of the requirements, that’s what you should be teaching.” “We haven’t taught that for years.” Said, “well, you’ve been flying for years, how have you managed that?” So anyway, you do whatever and I didn’t mind you know while I was capable, but I thought the change is as good as a rest and I left. Once you leave, that’s it, you’ve had it. You can’t get back in. I have to phone up and get someone to come and meet me at the gate if I want to go to Sultan, considering I was there since 1960, that’s the way the Services are. Being a Serviceman is far different. You’ve got that … well I don’t know. To get to Warrant Officer was good. I’d recommend it, I certainly wouldn’t pooh pooh it, even though it has changed. But I watched it change over the 17 years that I taught, and I taught to classes.
Simon: What did you notice in the change then?
Colin: Well, they were less keen, less enthusiastic. They were more interested in their runs ashore and tattoos and whatever. They didn’t seem to have the same attitude that we had in my day.
Simon: They weren’t so keen on the learning side?
Colin: Well partly that. I mean that’s all … you see they changed from Mechanics to Technicians and the Artificers who were the special ones did a four-year apprenticeship. They then became Engineering Technicians, so everybody became an Engineering Technician whether you were a Stoker before or a Technician afterwards and they lost a lot of the tradition the Artificers ‘cos they wore different uniform to start with, and that eventually went, and you couldn’t know an Artificer from a Technician. But then they’re all the same so it doesn’t really matter.
Simon: So a Technician is less qualified or less knowledgeable or …?
Colin: Yes, less knowledgeable. An Artificer does a proper apprenticeship or did a proper … but now that do that course as an Engineering Technician in Sultan, which is two years, and they keep going back for courses. I don’t know whether it’s a better thing or not. Trafalgar is the name of the School. I enjoyed the teaching but at one period halfway through, you get a class there were two rows of 15, and those two rows, when the chap had come in, Chief or their Officer, ‘Submarines’, ‘General Service’ and of course they then managed to wheedle out, so you got a lot less Submariners going through than you did General Service people. There were lots of inducements …
Simon: They now wear black hats.
Colin: And they have posh badges and they have posh uniforms and what have you. Things are different. Yeah, it’s a good life, even now.
95 minutes 10 seconds
Simon: And thinking about Gosport and you’re still very close to Gosport, what’s your recollections of Gosport? Have you got fond memories of the place?
Colin: I have very fond memories, partly playing rugby here, partly going to Sultan. Cycling through Gosport. I mean there are some nice areas in Gosport and there are some not quite as nice.
Simon: Did you used to ride a bike to the Ferry and then come across?
Colin: Yeah. I used to do that when I was in Dolphin. I’d go to Vernon, park me bike up and then get the Ferry across, but of course once that went, it was difficult. But I used to come over on the Ferry and cycle up, while I still have the use of my legs, you know, and I did that for years. Then I bought a scooter, moped, and chugged in, but I’ve been very fond of Gosport, I have. I mean I live in Southsea but certainly knew Gosport better and as I say, I enjoyed the social life there. It’s changes a lot. I mean it’s quite sad walking down the High Street. The Markets not very good any more and you have to pay to park and all kinds of things that are different. The Bus Depot is an absolute tip. You know, I catch the boat, I go up to Submarine Association halfway up to Fareham and I catch the bus. I get on the X2 which is supposed to take me somewhere near, but we hadn’t been for a while because we were doing it on the computer because of the Covid, and the bus didn’t stop and it kept going on up and of course they’ve extended the railway. You can get the bus almost from Gosport to Fareham. It goes straight up the old railway line, so I ended up near Fareham. I had to walk al the way back to … so things have changed. It’s a very good bus service but the Bus Depot is appalling. I know they’re going to rebuild it.
Simon: What about the earlier days of socialising in Gosport? Were there favourite watering holes there?
Colin: Oh yes, the Royal Arms where the bus stops. I mean that was a very popular place.
Simon: That was full of submariners was it?
Colin: Oh yes, there and there’s one down at Squeezecot Alley, there’s a narrow passageway down on the left, the George and Dragon, that was popular. They used to get the Wrens under training, the Nurses from Haslar were drinking.
Simon: And strangely that’s where all the blokes ended up as well.
Colin: Oh yes, but it looks exactly the same outside and I think they’re going to refurbish some of the area there, but the Nurses used to come up and they used to drink cider, pints of cider which I think was about seven pence …
Simon: Because it was good value?
Colin: Oh it was, very cheap. I mean beer was one and two when I was up in Barrow. One and a penny for bitter and one and three for mild, which is what, 15 pence and 30 pence or something, but this was very cheap. The Landlord said, “I can’t cope with this, they’re getting drunk every night” so he doubled the price and the Wrens were up in arms. Well, they weren’t Wrens, they were Nurses, but it was good fun, and they had a Swimming Pool in Gosport as well. They’ve got the Boating Lake; you know the sailing lake. Just the other side there, I’m trying to picture it, there was a Swimming Pool that we quite often stopped off at 11 o’clock at night for a dip.
Simon: It wasn’t open, but you opened it somehow.
Colin: On your way back over Pneumonia Bridge (laughs), back to Part 2 Training. I have a lot of fond memories of Gosport. As I say, I go over there quite often now.
Simon: Is there anything that we haven’t covered that you think we should have covered?
Colin: Probably covered more than I should (laughs). I don’t think so. I spent a long time … it’s all I know is the Service, best part of 50 years, on and off. Everything’s changed. The only concern is that I don’t have the access that I would like. I can get into the Dock Yard ‘cos I have my Museum Pass that gets me in but I can’t get in on an identity card, which they’ve taken off me. It’s a case of ‘don’t phone me, we’ll phone you’ which is very sad. I even know the Commodore of the Dock Yard because I used to teach him (laughs). I know his dad and he was part of the Youth Club I used to help, but even so, you know, that aside, you have to accept that. But no, I think we’ve covered just about everything, I can’t think … this missive I’ve written.
Simon: Well, thank you very much for your time.
Colin: I’m just sorry I’ve talked so much.
Simon: The whole point is for you to recount, thank you very much for your time and being so generous with it.
Interview ends
99 minutes 48 seconds
Transcribed March 2022
